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  1. #76
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    There are still a couple great on-going titles where it's just Batman. I don't see the problem.

  2. #77
    Senior Member EdwardNigma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReverseReverseFlash View Post
    Get rid of the Riddler? No? oh, it's okay to get rid of someone else's favorite characters, but not your own.

    Batman is a story about his family and sidekicks. Otherwise, you get some brooding unreadable jerk that only has one or two stories in him. That's Spawn.

    Batman's HUGE family of characters is one reason he has such a great legacy. Again, you cannot divorce him from the DC Universe just because you saw a hyper-realistic gritty movie that told you that was the right way to do it. Batman has decades of story to tell, you can't do that with one dude in a cape.
    If there were twelve variants of the Riddler I would want them gone too. Remember when Riddler had a daughter? Yeah I hated her and wanted her gone just as much. It isn't about favorite characters so much as way too many variants of the same thing.

  3. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Red Monk View Post
    1) Because people insist on writing him that way. Having no other Bat-Family members around does not preclude Batman from being a cheery, optimistic hero. Neither does having the Bat-Family around preclude Batman from being, in your own words, "some brooding, unreadable jerk". In fact, they are often the catalyst for it, since otherwise writers won't be able to write all those cringe-inducing "the Bat-Family keeps Batman sane" stories.
    Yeah, I find a lot of the solo-Batman stories feature a much more likable Bruce than the ones with a huge Bat-family around. I just watched Mask of the Phantasm the other night, and Bruce is depicted as such a grounded, fallible human being in that story that I don't see how anyone can view him as a "brooding, unreadable jerk." And he managed to be interesting even without a sidekick to bounce off of: Alfred, Andrea and the Joker provided all the character interaction he needed.

    Bruce being a father figure to Dick is one of my favorite dynamics he has, but the rest are just diluted variations of that one relationship that it starts to lose its power after a while.

  4. #79
    Senior Member Aioros22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Red Monk View Post
    1)
    And you know what Zorro is? F***ING AWESOME, that's what.
    I didn't meant my reply to be taken as derrogative to Zorro. I love Zorro. Zorro is more awesome than batman to me on the lonesome.

    But if I want to read Zorro, I'll buy a zorro comic.
    "Follow your own advice. Wear a mask!"

  5. #80
    Senior Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    I didn't meant my reply to be taken as derrogative to Zorro. I love Zorro. Zorro is more awesome than batman to me on the lonesome.

    But if I want to read Zorro, I'll buy a zorro comic.
    If you can find one . . . I don't think Dynamite has published any new ones in a couple of years, and who knows how many are still available in back issue bins (except maybe the $1.00 / Clearance sections).

  6. #81
    Senior Member Aioros22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    If you can find one . . . I don't think Dynamite has published any new ones in a couple of years, and who knows how many are still available in back issue bins (except maybe the $1.00 / Clearance sections).

    I think this series is still going on.

    http://www.comicmix.com/news/2011/09...d-zorro-oh-my/

    I think Dynamite is crossing over Zorro with someone else soon, but I don`t recall who off hand.
    "Follow your own advice. Wear a mask!"

  7. #82
    Senior Member Kid A's Avatar
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    He's about to meet Djano over at Vertigo.

  8. #83
    Tatty Daddy sprior93's Avatar
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    Batman's family is one of the few things that actually gives him substance and makes him even remotely compelling.
    Last edited by sprior93; 07-04-2014 at 05:48 PM.

  9. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by sprior93 View Post
    Batman's family is the one of the few things that actually gives him substance and makes him even remotely compelling.
    I'm sorry, I know it's all a matter of opinion, but I really don't know why people see things this way. The character would not have survived this long or become this popular of an icon if the extended Bat-family was one of the few factors in his success. Most of them were created fairly recently, long after things like the Adam West show, Tim Burton's films, Frank Miller's comics work and B:TAS arguably made him one of the most popular superheroes ever made. In fact, Robin and Batgirl are often unfairly blamed as being one of the factors to his becoming box office poison for several years before the Nolan trilogy brought him back; sans sidekicks, too. Snyder will likely work some of them into the new DC movies, but it's going to be a gradual process and we will likely only see Dick and maybe Barbara if we're lucky.

    A Bat-Family is necessary, of course, because every leading character needs a strong supporting cast to do just that: support him/her. But when Bruce barely interacts with most of these people, what does he gain by having them around, exactly? He's able to stand on his own, whereas they are not, making him the more versatile character. I also think he has way more interesting dynamics with Alfred, Dent, Gordon, Dr. Thompkins (is she around? I'm almost afraid to know what the New 52 did to her), Selina and his villains than he does with most of the Bat-kids.

  10. #85
    Tatty Daddy sprior93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I'm sorry, I know it's all a matter of opinion, but I really don't know why people see things this way. The character would not have survived this long or become this popular of an icon if the extended Bat-family was one of the few factors in his success. Most of them were created fairly recently, long after things like the Adam West show, Tim Burton's films, Frank Miller's comics work and B:TAS arguably made him one of the most popular superheroes ever made. In fact, Robin and Batgirl are often unfairly blamed as being one of the factors to his becoming box office poison for several years before the Nolan trilogy brought him back; sans sidekicks, too. Snyder will likely work some of them into the new DC movies, but it's going to be a gradual process and we will likely only see Dick and maybe Barbara if we're lucky.

    A Bat-Family is necessary, of course, because every leading character needs a strong supporting cast to do just that: support him/her. But when Bruce barely interacts with most of these people, what does he gain by having them around, exactly? He's able to stand on his own, whereas they are not, making him the more versatile character. I also think he has way more interesting dynamics with Alfred, Dent, Gordon, Dr. Thompkins (is she around? I'm almost afraid to know what the New 52 did to her), Selina and his villains than he does with most of the Bat-kids.
    Batman in my opinion is successful for a few key reasons..

    1. He looks cool
    2. He has great supporting characters (Nightwing, Alfred etc.)
    3. Gotham is a rich and palpable setting
    4. He has good villains
    5. Batman is most people's idea of 'edgy'. Edgy sells.

    Take away some of these things and what do you have? A neurotic billionaire who dresses up as a bat to fight crime. I just don't find anything compelling or relatable about that. But, like you said, it's all semantics. If you enjoy batman then all the power to you. I, however, think it would be a shame if the bat-family never existed.

  11. #86
    Mattress Tester t hedge coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    If you can find one . . . I don't think Dynamite has published any new ones in a couple of years, and who knows how many are still available in back issue bins (except maybe the $1.00 / Clearance sections).
    Amazon appears to have a fair number of in-print or readily available Zorro comics. Including Toth's, which are awesome.
    Anonymous un-vetted tumblr & reddit posters are the most significant voices in social politics today. If you're paranoid and forget there's a world out there.

  12. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by sprior93 View Post
    Batman in my opinion is successful for a few key reasons..

    1. He looks cool
    2. He has great supporting characters (Nightwing, Alfred etc.)
    3. Gotham is a rich and palpable setting
    4. He has good villains
    5. Batman is most people's idea of 'edgy'. Edgy sells.

    Take away some of these things and what do you have? A neurotic billionaire who dresses up as a bat to fight crime. I just don't find anything compelling or relatable about that. But, like you said, it's all semantics. If you enjoy batman then all the power to you. I, however, think it would be a shame if the bat-family never existed.
    You're right, it's all opinion. Every character is someone's favorite character, and I actually like every member of the Bat-family to a degree. But I think people are selling Bruce way too short in threads like this. While some crappy stories reduce him to being a "neurotic billionaire who dresses up as a bat to fight crime," better written portrayals are so much more than that. A lot of the specifics of his character aren't relatable, but he has some obvious character flaws/psychological hangups that make him a little more interesting and three dimensional than, say, Dick. A lot of fans cite Dick as being the more relateable of the two, but how is a handsome, charismatic acrobat who was an ace crime fighter in his early teens, a walking chick magnet and who has the unconditional respect of everyone in the superhero community more relateable? (And I say this as someone who loves Grayson)

    And as the Red Monk said, writers often suck all the personality right out of Bruce and/or make him a complete asshole in the big Bat-Family crossovers. His solo adventures in the old Legends of the Dark Knight title depicted a Bruce who was allowed to have a personality and be fallible, so the idea that Bruce is some unrelateable jerk when the Robins and co. aren't around isn't really based in fact.

  13. #88

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    My opinion on the Batfamily is the more the merrier, so long as the titles are inclusive to tastes and can incorporate the mythos in a positive way I would be happy.

    People seem to forget that Batman had Robin before the Joker was created. The Batfamily does not reduce the character unless someone struggles in writing the various voices. As a huge fan of Batman inc I see no problem in using an extended crime fighting cast.
    “Nothing is harder to understand than a symbolic work. A symbol always transcends the one who makes use of it and makes him say in reality more than he is aware of expressing.”
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  14. #89
    Senior Member Aioros22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid A View Post
    He's about to meet Djano over at Vertigo.
    Yes! Thank you, that`s it!

    http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=53515

    Tarantino and Wagner, oh tis gonna be good.
    Last edited by Aioros22; 07-05-2014 at 02:21 AM.
    "Follow your own advice. Wear a mask!"

  15. #90
    Senior Member Aioros22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I'm sorry, I know it's all a matter of opinion, but I really don't know why people see things this way. The character would not have survived this long or become this popular of an icon if the extended Bat-family was one of the few factors in his success. Most of them were created fairly recently, long after things like the Adam West show, Tim Burton's films, Frank Miller's comics work and B:TAS arguably made him one of the most popular superheroes ever made. In fact, Robin and Batgirl are often unfairly blamed as being one of the factors to his becoming box office poison for several years before the Nolan trilogy brought him back; sans sidekicks, too. Snyder will likely work some of them into the new DC movies, but it's going to be a gradual process and we will likely only see Dick and maybe Barbara if we're lucky.

    A Bat-Family is necessary, of course, because every leading character needs a strong supporting cast to do just that: support him/her. But when Bruce barely interacts with most of these people, what does he gain by having them around, exactly? He's able to stand on his own, whereas they are not, making him the more versatile character. I also think he has way more interesting dynamics with Alfred, Dent, Gordon, Dr. Thompkins (is she around? I'm almost afraid to know what the New 52 did to her), Selina and his villains than he does with most of the Bat-kids.
    Alfred and "Robin" were created fairly early on Batman`s publishing life.

    There`s always room for Batman going solo, but sooner or later interactions are necessary. Nolan himself introduced his amalgamation of the "Robin" aspect and pulled a Mcguiness.

    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    Zorro`s Toth is nothing short of a work of art. If I feel burn from drawing I just need to touch it to feel another go.
    "Follow your own advice. Wear a mask!"

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