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  1. #586
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    I for one would love to see costume redesign concepts that don’t bank on stereotypical Native American tropes. No stupid feathers, no silly beaded jewelry, and for God’s sake, no fringe. I can live with a headband cause we live in a Wonder Woman and Storm world, but spare me the ethnic signifiers.

  2. #587
    Extraordinary Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    I for one would love to see costume redesign concepts that don’t bank on stereotypical Native American tropes. No stupid feathers, no silly beaded jewelry, and for God’s sake, no fringe. I can live with a headband cause we live in a Wonder Woman and Storm world, but spare me the ethnic signifiers.
    I dont mind them as they are apart of Dani's heritage that hse is proud of. The initial reason she even had that stuff in the first place was to hold onto her cultural and not be whitewashed in Xavier's generic image for the group. Like you I do feel the headband needs to stay. If there is one thing, that is part of her signature look

    Speaking of costumes, I dont know what the hell they were thinking with this one. She was still supposed to be a 17, maybe 18 year old girl. She was oversexualized for no reason and this was completely out of character for her



    Last edited by Havok83; 01-13-2018 at 10:07 AM.

  3. #588

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    I think even they realized that pretty quickly and recolored that costume so there wasn't so much bare skin.



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  4. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I dont mind them as they are apart of Dani's heritage that hse is proud of.
    I'm old enough to assume that the costume designer didn't do appropriate research into Cheyenne traditional and modern dress when making choices about what cultural artifacts Dani would wear in order to set herself apart. Is there even a significant Cheyenne minority population in Colorado's urban centers?

  5. #590
    My FABulous4 Mutant MUSES Heroine Addict's Avatar
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    VERY much agree on the headband, and from Lorna's thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Heroine Addict View Post
    A rough, VERY rudimentary idea of what I'm aiming/goin' for:

    Last edited by Heroine Addict; 01-19-2018 at 01:06 PM.
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  6. #591
    Jubilant Member Dementia5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I dont mind them as they are apart of Dani's heritage that hse is proud of. The initial reason she even had that stuff in the first place was to hold onto her cultural and not be whitewashed in Xavier's generic image for the group. Like you I do feel the headband needs to stay. If there is one thing, that is part of her signature look
    Agreed, the Native American imagery is important to her as a reflection of her cultural heritage, but itís also important that it not be over the top. It should be an homage, not a caricature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Speaking of costumes, I dont know what the hell they were thinking with this one. She was still supposed to be a 17, maybe 18 year old girl. She was oversexualized for no reason and this was completely out of character for her
    Again, agreed. Unfortunately this seems to be pretty standard with Marvel.
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  7. #592

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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    I'm old enough to assume that the costume designer didn't do appropriate research into Cheyenne traditional and modern dress when making choices about what cultural artifacts Dani would wear in order to set herself apart. Is there even a significant Cheyenne minority population in Colorado's urban centers?
    No, Colorado is pretty white, with just a touch of Mexican/Latinos, and even less Blacks or Native Americans(less than 1% of the population, each, in Boulder). The closest Cheyenne concentration is in the Northern Cheyenne Reservation, in southern Montana, or the Cheyenne and Arapaho Indian Reservation in Oklahoma. There's about 23,000 in total Cheyenne, but only about half that number or less actually live in the reservations. Of course, Dani was presented as living in the rural Medicine Bow mountains(almost on the border of Wyoming) with her grandfather initially who was decidedly old school, and her parents seemed to have a sprawling ranch.

    Cheyenne culture does include fringe, and beaded jewelry, and are very much the prototypical plain's "Indians" one would imagine.







    Of course, such dress is usually reserved for pow wows these days, but it's not to say Dani might not be an especially old-school kinda girl and want to show her culture off more, especially when you consider such regalia would be appropriate for a war party, which superhero teams basically are.

    I think some artists might go overboard with it, but I like that Dani is proud of her heritage and show's those "whites" what's up!
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  8. #593
    Extraordinary Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    I'm old enough to assume that the costume designer didn't do appropriate research into Cheyenne traditional and modern dress when making choices about what cultural artifacts Dani would wear in order to set herself apart. Is there even a significant Cheyenne minority population in Colorado's urban centers?
    I dont know where McLeod's head was at when he designed her. I didnt think she was over the top or a caricature but then again Im not Native American


  9. #594
    Jubilant Member Dementia5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I dont know where McLeod's head was at when he designed her. I didnt think she was over the top or a caricature but then again Im not Native American
    I was actually referring to her costumes on a go-forward basis.

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  10. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    stuff
    Oh hell yes, thank you yogaflame!

    I'm glad you didn't Google shame me for not doing my own quick research, but instead taught us all about the Cheyenne people. I can get with some fringe now :-) I was afraid people might find themselves in an airport gift shop and use that to define her costuming. We'd end up with tans and turquoise, there's a lot more primarily palette in the images you shared.

    Makes me want to draw a tasteful blend of supersuit and traditional elements.

  11. #596

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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Oh hell yes, thank you yogaflame!

    I'm glad you didn't Google shame me for not doing my own quick research, but instead taught us all about the Cheyenne people. I can get with some fringe now :-) I was afraid people might find themselves in an airport gift shop and use that to define her costuming. We'd end up with tans and turquoise, there's a lot more primarily palette in the images you shared.

    Makes me want to draw a tasteful blend of supersuit and traditional elements.
    I've looked into Cheyenne culture before; it is my pleasure to share what anyone can find if they search.
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  12. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    I've looked into Cheyenne culture before; it is my pleasure to share what anyone can find if they search.
    Can you tell me what the Cheyenne people might think of the word "Brave", if used as a person descriptor? I worry it's too offensive to be co-opted as a codename for a young Fearless Defender with fear- and death-based mutant powers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    image
    So Dani is clearly Storm at Kitty's age. That's a ridiculous recipe for success. What happened?
    Last edited by CRaymond; 01-13-2018 at 11:50 AM.

  13. #598

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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Can you tell me what the Cheyenne people might think of the word "Brave", if used as a person descriptor? I worry it's too offensive to be co-opted as a codename for a young Fearless Defender with fear- and death-based mutant powers.

    So Dani is clearly Storm at Kitty's age. That's a ridiculous recipe for success. What happened?
    I'm not Cheyenne, you'd have to ask them. I'm sure you could find multiple answers from multiple individuals, at that.

    Dani was clearly Storm's successor, she even took care of Ororo's plants while the X-Men were in space. Dani, like Ororo, lost their great benefactor when Claremont was no longer writing them. Rare is the writer since who can make them shine. Tis sad indeed. The world could use more indigenous women of power like them in media.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  14. #599
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    Dani was one of the few good things about the last New Mutants series and was arguably the headliner throughout the 50 issue run. Idk why she hasn’t stuck in the way that Illyana has.

  15. #600
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinster Sinister View Post
    Dani was one of the few good things about the last New Mutants series and was arguably the headliner throughout the 50 issue run. Idk why she hasn’t stuck in the way that Illyana has.
    Absolutely true. Dani is one of my favorite characters and the last NM series clearly put her in the spotlight for the most part. It was a gift. Unfortunately we haven't seen much her since that series ended. A little in Fearless Defenders then scattered appearances after. It's a shame because she is so (seemingly) integral to the X-Men operations that you would think they would use her more. And I don't know why Illyana stuck more than Dani - perhaps it's the teleporting part or maybe the fact that Magik has actual super powers - not discounting Dani's Valkyrie powers but I'm not sure if those are still around anymore.
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