Page 14 of 15 FirstFirst ... 4101112131415 LastLast
Results 196 to 210 of 219
  1. #196
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    2,428

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    Dick was the overconfident daredevil circus kid that really enjoyed being Robin and was having a blast with it, Jason was the angry troubled kid from the city that had problem with following orders,
    Dick had during parts of this career also problems with anger and following orders and Jason was at some point a nice kid that really loved beeing Robin.

    Here thas for example Dick in Batman Turning Points #2.

    Batman - Turning Points #2 1.jpg

    Batman - Turning Points #2 2.jpg

    Batman - Turning Points #2 3.jpg
    Last edited by Aahz; 03-17-2017 at 04:20 AM.

  2. #197
    Veteran Member dietrich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    1,816

    Default




  3. #198
    Senior Member NightwingIvI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Anywhere but Blüdhaven
    Posts
    789

    Default

    If Duke really isn't going by Lark, then I have an alternate suggestion to fit his MO:
    Dayman!

    He would already have his own theme song:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iJNtVNe286E
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batdog?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  4. #199
    Veteran Member unclepulky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    1,449

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NightwingIvI View Post
    If Duke really isn't going by Lark, then I have an alternate suggestion to fit his MO:
    Dayman!

    He would already have his own theme song:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iJNtVNe286E
    you and I don't agree on a lot, but at least we both love Sunny!

    And of course, Duke's archenemy would have to be the Nightman, whose main objective is to get into Duke's hole.

  5. #200
    Veteran Member Atlanta96's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    4,713

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NightwingIvI View Post
    If Duke really isn't going by Lark, then I have an alternate suggestion to fit his MO:
    Dayman!

    He would already have his own theme song:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iJNtVNe286E
    Absolutely bloody not. We all know his name should be Pigeon

    Hey, post number 200!
    Last edited by Atlanta96; 03-19-2017 at 09:21 PM.
    I'm on Twitter https://mobile.twitter.com/Atlanta962

    "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

  6. #201
    Veteran Member Atlanta96's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    4,713

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Dick had during parts of this career also problems with anger and following orders and Jason was at some point a nice kid that really loved beeing Robin.

    Here thas for example Dick in Batman Turning Points #2.

    Batman - Turning Points #2 1.jpg

    Batman - Turning Points #2 2.jpg

    Batman - Turning Points #2 3.jpg
    I'm sorry but, I just can't take Robin's anger seriously when he's wearing the speedo costume. It really doesn't lend itself to dramatic stories.
    I'm on Twitter https://mobile.twitter.com/Atlanta962

    "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

  7. #202
    Senior Member NightwingIvI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Anywhere but Blüdhaven
    Posts
    789

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    you and I don't agree on a lot, but at least we both love Sunny!

    And of course, Duke's archenemy would have to be the Nightman, whose main objective is to get into Duke's hole.
    I was originally going to say that Batman could be his Nightman, but I had forgotten is role in the song. That would have some... disturbing implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atlanta96 View Post
    I'm sorry but, I just can't take Robin's anger seriously when he's wearing the speedo costume. It really doesn't lend itself to dramatic stories.
    You mean that costume that he wore the whole time he was Robin?
    Last edited by NightwingIvI; 03-20-2017 at 05:38 AM.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batdog?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  8. #203

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Okay, so I though about it and I think that I can now try to explain what Duke position in the Batfamily and why it makes him unique.

    Duke is the bridge between the vigilantes of Gotham and its citizens.

    If one look at his past, it is all there. He was first introduced by day, trying to solve crosswords to defy the Riddler by day, before a crowd. it was something Batman was loath to do at that time. He had tried to stop Riddler from the shadows but hadn't stepped into the light at that time, and he was forced to do so to confront the master of Zero Year. It was, however, insufficient and he had to finish the Riddler in the darkness of the Museum, because, all in all, the peoples of Gotham hadn't the will to take matters into their own hands. Duke is latter reintroduced during Endgame, where the peoples of Gotham have been turned into Batman's enemies because of the Joker. This new toxin create a strong hatred toward those you love, and the citizens of Gotham being against Batman prove that they care about him, but all in all, they don't act on this love for him, not really.

    Then we go to We Are Robin, Robin War and Superheavy. In those three storylines, Duke is trying to find his parents while the majority of the population has grown ever more apathetic in the face of crimes. By joining the Robins, Duke becomes a part of a social movement which intends to change Gotham for the better. The Robins are young people, somewhat disillusioned with the way their town is going and who intends to change this course to steer it toward better days. In the New 52 Gotham, it is a first (and even from the few I truly know of Gotham pre-52, there wasn't that many examples of such a movement. Even in No Man's Land, it's the police forces who are acting on the behalf of Gotham citizens and not really those common citizens). The Robins become public enemies because of the Court of Owls (a shadowy organization) but even then they still brazenly operate into the day and night. And during Superheavy, Mr. Bloom is a twisted version of the Robins : instead of peoples banding together to better their city, Mr. Bloom offered superpowers to wreak havoc and destroy Gotham, pretending that it would allow a more beautiful and peaceful city to take place. But his goal of absolute destruction, which rested on people's desperation, was turned upside down by the hope Batman's return brought. Still, Batman is lacking an associate able to channel the peoples to action effectively.

    Enters Duke Thomas. This boy has had his parents infected by the Joker's Virus apparently forever, still he has taken to action in a social movement Batman has nothing to do with at first, a movement which has, in fact, chosen to associate itself with Robin, a character with vibrant and hence visible colours. This is thus a movement which wants to be seen and heard. That's why Duke's costume is yellow and black : this young man is halfway between the world of Batman (hence the black on the costume and the gift of it by Bruce) and the peoples of Gotham (hence the yellow and the fact that it will be children who will name Duke's superhero identity). The goal of Batman here is not to create a new Robin, that is a youth brought fully in the dark side of Gotham. it's to create an hero who can propel peoples into actions by daylight to better the city. Someone who isn't seeding fear or wonder (like Batman and Robin) but constructive hope so that the peoples can get busy and reclaims their lives.

    If I'm right, then it opens several storylines unique for Duke. The first is obviously that he'll have to propel peoples into action, which would require the help of the We Are Robin kids, who have a web of relations and skills which can help him achieving this goal. Julie Madison would obviously play a large part in it as well. Once the social movement would have been implemented, Duke would have to deal with those who would oppose it, openly (classical villains) and shadowy (the Court of Owls mainly). But he would also have to deal with those people he would have pushed into action and who takes it too far. Are they people who legitimately wants to do good but simply are too rough and violent at first or people who use the social movement as an excuse to let their worst instincts roam freely ? Duke would also have to deal with the likes of the Victims Syndicate, since he himself is a victim of Batman's war on crime.

    Then, there would be his relationship with Gotham-Girl, which could introduce some more personal difficulties to his arcs : is propelling the peoples to action is truly worth it since Gotham now has a truly Superhero ? On the opposite, how would he react to Claire using her powers, which kills her a little bit everytime she does ? Would he try to strengthen the movement so Claire has less reasons to use her powers ? Would he try to convince her to drop those powers altogether ? Would he try to find a cure, something which would allow Gotham-Girl to still have her powers without dying ? The last one could be possible, since he would probably want to save the girl he'll fall in love with instead of losing her like he has lost his parents. There would also be the question of how a normal human feels in a relationship with an extremely powerful "meta" (something which hasn't been explored into the Batman's Universe for years now) with a tinge of tragedy.

    Obviously, some could argue that there is no need of Duke in the Batfamily to have those storylines, Tim Drake could do the job. But I disagree. Since Rebirth, we have seen two things when it comes to Tim : he wanted to drop the life of vigilantes to become something else (which would also be a great storyline) but, more importantly, he dreamt of a Bat-organization, wearing the brand of Batman and under the control of the Batfamily. It isn't what I think Duke role will have. Tim envisioned himself as the leader of an organization, something structured strictly, with rules and codes; Duke would (and I fact I think will) be the figurehead of a movement greater than himself, he wouldn't have control over it, at best he would inspire it. Where Tim wanted something to shape into an effective tool, Duke would be the interface between Gotham's day and Gotham's night, so to speak. I also think that there is a reason the Colony was the first enemy of the Batfamily in Detective Comics Rebirth : they are everything which could go wrong with Tim idea and here to say to us that Batman having his private forces in the ground everywhere isn't a good idea. Duke movement, while less able to transform the city in a short time could probably change it for the better in the long run.

    That's what I think of Duke and his future, sorry for the long post.
    Its an interesting read. Good work.

  9. #204
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    Anyway to get this back on the Appreciation track. This week's All Star was good Duke's Backup story was certainly the highlight for me. And the team getting a shout out and the pictures on the wall was pretty cool. I want to know what name the kids came up with though
    I agree, and the best one yet. It managed to blow my issue with Issue 6's backup out of the water. I really appreciated Izzy being there, too, and I'd have loved to have seen the others if we had the luxury of time and space.

    (For the sake of things, I believe I'll rain-check on responding to your other post at this time.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Okay, so I though about it and I think that I can now try to explain what Duke position in the Batfamily and why it makes him unique.

    Duke is the bridge between the vigilantes of Gotham and its citizens.

    ::Insert the remainder of this beautifully done post here::
    Wonderful, beautiful post here.

    I always appreciate it to see someone who knows Duke so well, and so that on it's own carried the post, but even past that, it was a great post.

    Your speculation as to his potential role that Snyder if leading him to is very intriguing, and seems to be very spot-on as best I can tell. I look forward to see how it will pan out in practice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    The problem with Tim is that until Rebirth Tim wasn't even part of the Batman editorial department. He was pushed out of the franchise because it was already too crowded and forced to just be in the Titans which is the reason for the organization stuff which his fans aren't too happy with. With Duke now being more involved he really does take up a space that Tim probably could and it is going to be very difficult I think to use both characters together going forward because they are so similar. Both don't really have really difference character traits, both still have their parents and have a semblance of a "normal life", close to the same age, and both love interests are a blonde with ties to a lower tier villain. They aren't exact copies, but I think both are very similar in terms of being "normal" which I think hurts both going forward.

    So I think the real problem is his personality as he doesn't stand out too well. Both Tim and now Duke are the "normal" ones and I think they really should have tried to take more risks with him, but I also understand why they didn't and wanted to play it safe. Dick was the overconfident daredevil circus kid that really enjoyed being Robin and was having a blast with it, Jason was the angry troubled kid from the city that had problem with following orders, and Damian is the arrogant biological son of Bruce that sees himself as above everyone else and has poor social skills. Tim and Duke in comparison are kind of normal and don't stand out as much. If there was just one of them then being the "normal one" I think would let them stand out but both trying to occupy the same space I think will be difficult, if that makes any sense.
    I've seen people say that Tim and Duke are similar, but I really don't see it, especially New 52/Rebirth Tim. In addition, I rather feel like those who say Duke is similar to Tim aren't really that familiar with Duke, as in spite of him being newer, there's enough of Duke in the past few years to be able to garner who he is, and I wouldn't garner that to be similar to Tim very much.

    Also, even if Tim and Duke are the "normal" ones, and I'd argue that Tim's character as he is now is far from the standard of "normal" that's being implicitly used here -- maybe starting out, but not now, I would say that they are different enough in their respective "normal-ness" that they are fundamentally, well, different.

  10. #205
    Veteran Member dietrich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    1,816

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    The problem with Tim is that until Rebirth Tim wasn't even part of the Batman editorial department. He was pushed out of the franchise because it was already too crowded and forced to just be in the Titans which is the reason for the organization stuff which his fans aren't too happy with. With Duke now being more involved he really does take up a space that Tim probably could and it is going to be very difficult I think to use both characters together going forward because they are so similar. Both don't really have really difference character traits, both still have their parents and have a semblance of a "normal life", close to the same age, and both love interests are a blonde with ties to a lower tier villain. They aren't exact copies, but I think both are very similar in terms of being "normal" which I think hurts both going forward.

    So I think the real problem is his personality as he doesn't stand out too well. Both Tim and now Duke are the "normal" ones and I think they really should have tried to take more risks with him, but I also understand why they didn't and wanted to play it safe. Dick was the overconfident daredevil circus kid that really enjoyed being Robin and was having a blast with it, Jason was the angry troubled kid from the city that had problem with following orders, and Damian is the arrogant biological son of Bruce that sees himself as above everyone else and has poor social skills. Tim and Duke in comparison are kind of normal and don't stand out as much. If there was just one of them then being the "normal one" I think would let them stand out but both trying to occupy the same space I think will be difficult, if that makes any sense.
    Maybe with Tim struggling in recent time Duke an attempt at a better, more updated version. Tim Drake done right.
    Tim was good when he 1st arrived cos he was a blank generic character that fans can insert themselves in to be part of the story. He had no personality was great for self insertion. That worked well then but things change fans demand and expect more. Jason came back and Damian arrived changing the game.

    What made Tim a success back in the day is what's currently killing him. He was a normal likeable kid with zero personality or strong definers and that made him replaceable, forgetful and bland.
    Duke is the modern more improved take on a Tim Drake. Tim with a personality.

  11. #206
    Blind Bastard Orujo-man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    620

    Default

    I really hope the writers differentiate Duke from Tim more. Thinking about it, the other Robins adapts pretty well to the current times.

    Dick never gets old, the charming and funny good hearted hero. The good guy who brings hope to everyone and makes the people to be better.

    Jason fits pretty well with a segment of the fans, and the actual mood of the society. The system failed to them, they have resentments against the established order and think that the classic ideals failed. They are more cynical and crytical than the former generations. I think that's the reason why Jason became more popular in the last years.

    Damian fits to other segment, mostly the last generation. Arrogant, who thinks that they are better, stronger, more prepared and smarter than the oldest. They want to prove their value and eat the world.

    And that's the problem with Tim. The sweet, humble, normal kid doesn't fits pretty well in the actual world. DC tried to make him a super-geek-tech guy and failed.

    So how does Duke fit into current trends? In We Are Robin he leads the Robin movement and fits pretty well as a representation of the people that goes out to protest against the actual problems. Similar as Jason in the rebellion, but without the pessimism, the resentiments and the cynism. They want changes and hopes a better future. And they actively participate in the new movements.

    And here is where I see the big problem. When Snyder took him from WAR, he tooks their own niche. How fits an activist, a leader of a movement, without him in the streets, with others like him?.

    That's a good question.
    Last edited by Orujo-man; 03-21-2017 at 09:24 AM.

  12. #207
    Junior Member Korath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    279

    Default

    I think that some Tim/Duke time together could be great, because it would highlight the differences between the two. Tim is more of a Batman without trust issues, but he clearly has his own issues (a drive to control everything, as recently highlighted by his actions in Detective Comics Rebirth and the flashbacks where he talked to Batman about a Batfoundation expanding itself into every aspect of a city's life). Duke his more a social worker/activist who's trying to change the city but not control him (hence why I think that Julie Madison, the WAR Kids, Darryl and possibly Mister Bloom if he makes a comeback -even if he is more a Jim Gordon villain -would be fantastic to Duke's development and staple in Gotham City).

    Duke and Tim would probably agree on the same goal (bettering the city proper, instead of just fighting crime reactively) but diverge on how to do so, and it would be great for the two characters, if D.C. managed to show that both are right but also wrong if they go to the extreme (total control and absolute rejection of the institutions).

  13. #208
    Junior Member Korath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    279

    Default

    While I posted it elsewhere, it is also fitting for a Duke Thomas appreciation, I think is personality is : he is insecure about himself (and his abilities), hard-working (he went from struggling to solve crosswords to being, if not a genius, at least a high-level student), (over)eager to join the fray instead of remaining in the Batcave, a smart-ass at time (like seen in his Robin War introduction, but also his first interaction with Gotham-Girl), emphatic (again, the thing with Gotham-Girl), dedicated (to his causes, as seen when he kept searching for his parents, when he kept trying to make We Are Robin team work, etc.), and at time he has a stubborn streak which prevents him from staying down (like when he confronted Damian at the end of Robin War).

  14. #209
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    I think that some Tim/Duke time together could be great, because it would highlight the differences between the two. Tim is more of a Batman without trust issues, but he clearly has his own issues (a drive to control everything, as recently highlighted by his actions in Detective Comics Rebirth and the flashbacks where he talked to Batman about a Batfoundation expanding itself into every aspect of a city's life). Duke his more a social worker/activist who's trying to change the city but not control him (hence why I think that Julie Madison, the WAR Kids, Darryl and possibly Mister Bloom if he makes a comeback -even if he is more a Jim Gordon villain -would be fantastic to Duke's development and staple in Gotham City).

    Duke and Tim would probably agree on the same goal (bettering the city proper, instead of just fighting crime reactively) but diverge on how to do so, and it would be great for the two characters, if D.C. managed to show that both are right but also wrong if they go to the extreme (total control and absolute rejection of the institutions).
    In spite of the particular negative/toxic crowd it would well likely court, this would be a really cool.

    If done just so, it would really highlight both characters, and help showcase their differences better, in addition to the similarities they do currently share.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    While I posted it elsewhere, it is also fitting for a Duke Thomas appreciation, I think is personality is : he is insecure about himself (and his abilities), hard-working (he went from struggling to solve crosswords to being, if not a genius, at least a high-level student), (over)eager to join the fray instead of remaining in the Batcave, a smart-ass at time (like seen in his Robin War introduction, but also his first interaction with Gotham-Girl), emphatic (again, the thing with Gotham-Girl), dedicated (to his causes, as seen when he kept searching for his parents, when he kept trying to make We Are Robin team work, etc.), and at time he has a stubborn streak which prevents him from staying down (like when he confronted Damian at the end of Robin War).
    Once more, all wonderfully put.

  15. #210
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,963

    Default

    Isn't it time for Bruce to adopt Duke?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •