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Thread: Ultimates˛

  1. #331

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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    There would be a difference. Hyenas are individually sentient mammals, not hive-minded abominations. And, hyenas are not an existential threat to the planet, unlike the bug-eyed hive-monsters.


    It did not add much, while making Marvel and Danvers a bit reprehensible. (With all that is happening to their allies, in orbit and on planet, they are getting weepy over their enemies?) I am okay with characters being reprehensible. But, I am not sure if Ewing is going in that direction on purpose.
    Being saddened at a whole lot of living beings dying completely senselessly is reprehensible? It's not like Adam and Carol aren't also worried about what's happening on the planet, or their friends in orbit. They recognize that letting the Chitauri kill themselves against the SHIELD is the right decision. Doesn't mean it isn't still rough to watch.

  2. #332
    Scarlet and Proud! Star_Jammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    Being saddened at a whole lot of living beings dying completely senselessly is reprehensible? It's not like Adam and Carol aren't also worried about what's happening on the planet, or their friends in orbit. They recognize that letting the Chitauri kill themselves against the SHIELD is the right decision. Doesn't mean it isn't still rough to watch.
    And can't you just imagine the smell.
    "Cría cuervos y te sacarán los ojos."

  3. #333
    Mighty Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodchuck78 View Post
    This is my first post, but I'm not a troll, just new. I just read this book and I love some of the earlier books, but at first I could not tell if the art was for real. To be honest, I wanted my money back after I opened this issue. Is this really the state of comics today? I recently got back into comics after a 22 year break. I'm shocked and disappointed. I'm talking about the current issue, issue 7. Is it just me?
    I didn't think it was that bad. It suffers a severe case of "tumblr nose" which put me off at the beginning, but the composition of the panels was quite good. You want bad, take a look at what Gwenpool gets as filler art.

  4. #334
    Fantastic Member GrandEleven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    Rebuilding the station would be really expensive, and it's been made clear that Alpha Flight has to deal with budgets. If the station gets destroyed, then that's it for Alpha Flight, and given Carol's gotta be questioning if it'll be worthwhile keeping the shield up if they get back to Earth, letting the station be destroyed is pretty much the end of Earth's defence against cosmic threats. On top of that, the station has plenty of people on it, and there are people injured during the fight against the Chitauri. What kind of medical facilities does the moon have? Is there a hydroponics bay for growing food? I'd also assume the Alpha Flight tech people are still trying to find a way through the shield, which they couldn't do from the moon. There's also the issue of getting the people to the moon. Do they have transports to get people there? How many people can MAC's portals handle at once?

    So, yeah, there are reasons why "go to the moon" isn't a great solution.


    Then move the station.

    They already established it's a bunch of mindless things doing a suicide run into a shield. All they need to to do move the station out of the way and go back to saving the universe. Put it on the other side of the planet that _doesn't_ have wave after wave of chitauri slamming into it? Or do we think beings like Hyperion aren't strong enough to move it?
    Last edited by GrandEleven; 05-18-2017 at 08:06 PM.

  5. #335
    Fantastic Member GrandEleven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endsong View Post
    I think that it did further the narrative a bit. It showed that the Ultimates can't inherently rely on Galactus for everything.
    They've saved the big G's life twice in the current story ... I think it's pretty well established they can't use him for everything.

  6. #336
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    Rebuilding the station would be really expensive, and it's been made clear that Alpha Flight has to deal with budgets. If the station gets destroyed, then that's it for Alpha Flight, and given Carol's gotta be questioning if it'll be worthwhile keeping the shield up if they get back to Earth, letting the station be destroyed is pretty much the end of Earth's defence against cosmic threats. On top of that, the station has plenty of people on it, and there are people injured during the fight against the Chitauri. What kind of medical facilities does the moon have? Is there a hydroponics bay for growing food? I'd also assume the Alpha Flight tech people are still trying to find a way through the shield, which they couldn't do from the moon. There's also the issue of getting the people to the moon. Do they have transports to get people there? How many people can MAC's portals handle at once?

    So, yeah, there are reasons why "go to the moon" isn't a great solution.

    They are not shown defending the base, they are shown trying to fight off the hordes before they reach Earth. A futile gesture. And worrying about the future of Alpha Flight when The North American continent is at war seems unlikely. I don't for one minute think that is on any of their minds. I understand the desire to break down the shield and help, but they can't do that fighting an unending battle against wave after wave of aliens.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrandEleven View Post
    Put it on the other side of the planet that _doesn't_ have wave after wave of chitauri slamming into it? Or do we think beings like Hyperion aren't strong enough to move it?
    I don't think the horde are coming from a single direction. This issue does make it feel like that, but previous depictions of this second wave have been more spread out. The Chitauri queen is inside the Shield and was calling to them before the shield went up. Each wave will presumably come from the direction of a colony. That is probably an unpredictable direction.

    But they should retreat. That's what you do when you face insurmountable odds and are not in the way of the enemy's advance. Think the beaches of Dunkirk, the only option was get out before everyone died horribly. There are habitable places on the moon, it is just a matter of carrying everyone there. Again Dunkirk is the example, use everyone and everything that you can to save the people, and abandon the hardware. It is probably worth considering this is early-on in the timeline. Maybe the next move will be get the hell out of the way.

    It is symptomatic of the event that we are even discussing this issue in a thread about Ultimates. This conflict has very little to do with this volume and is literally crowbarred in. Plus Mac could easily take a group to an alternate Earth orbit, fly down and do the same back again. She would just need time to do the same for everyone, a few at a time, which again suggests retreat is the best option. This issue just makes excuses for why this big hitting team isn't helping by artificially focusing on a very narrow timeframe to make things seem helpless.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 05-19-2017 at 12:14 AM.

  7. #337

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandEleven View Post
    Then move the station.

    They already established it's a bunch of mindless things doing a suicide run into a shield. All they need to to do move the station out of the way and go back to saving the universe. Put it on the other side of the planet that _doesn't_ have wave after wave of chitauri slamming into it? Or do we think beings like Hyperion aren't strong enough to move it?
    Even if the Chitauri are only coming from one direction, a space station is Pretty Frigging Big. Moving it wouldn't be easy. Hyperion was injured before the shield even went up, so he can't help. Which means it would basically come down to Blue Marvel and Captain Marvel, and even those two together might not be able to move a space station, especially one as big as the AFSS.

    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    They are not shown defending the base, they are shown trying to fight off the hordes before they reach Earth. A futile gesture. And worrying about the future of Alpha Flight when The North American continent is at war seems unlikely. I don't for one minute think that is on any of their minds. I understand the desire to break down the shield and help, but they can't do that fighting an unending battle against wave after wave of aliens.
    No, they are defending the station. Well, the station and themselves. Monica tells everyone not to worry about getting all the Chitauri, just the ones coming at them, and that all they need to do is turn away any who move towards the station.



    As far as evacuating the station goes, I'm assuming Ewing figured that would be up to Stohl to decide, since she's the one writing the Captain Marvel series. Or it might be Spencer's call, as the architect of the event. Either way, it's not really Ewing's decision to make.

  8. #338
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    As far as evacuating the station goes, I'm assuming Ewing figured that would be up to Stohl to decide, since she's the one writing the Captain Marvel series. Or it might be Spencer's call, as the architect of the event. Either way, it's not really Ewing's decision to make.
    Which goes to prove two things. The pointlessness of this tie-in, and the artificial narrowness of the timeline being shown here. These kinds of tie-ins are the worst kind. They halt the narrative of an ongoing book and yet don't help move the event story forward at all. All we learn here is that even a super team like Ultimates can't get through, even though logically they could just go around it (like every wall in the history of warfare or politics).

  9. #339
    Judgement Awaits LordAllMIghty's Avatar
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    So I missed two issues and just got caught up. All I have to say...I love this freaking book. Ewing writing, Foreman's artwork and Yachey's coloring...lord, its all fantatic.
    I've seen your end and it starts with you challenging me.

  10. #340
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    In binary form carol does have incalculable strength so i think carol could move the space station but only in binary form.
    The mcu carol i think read would be able move the moon or a planet.
    Blue marvel and hyperion have incalculable strength like superman,gladiator,sentry,thor and hulk.
    So they could move the space station, but they don't want to.
    Their plan is to hold their ground as long as they can.
    No retreat,no surrender.
    Last edited by mace11; 05-19-2017 at 08:07 AM.

  11. #341
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    Even if the Chitauri are only coming from one direction, a space station is Pretty Frigging Big. Moving it wouldn't be easy. Hyperion was injured before the shield even went up, so he can't help. Which means it would basically come down to Blue Marvel and Captain Marvel, and even those two together might not be able to move a space station, especially one as big as the AFSS.
    Pardon the digression...

    I blame Ewing for that false perception. Blue Marvel should easily be strong enough to move any space station's mass wherever, unless we're talking about TAA II. But no, Hyperion gets the planet moving feats, and now everyone thinks that Blue is a weaker understudy. Sad. Just sad.

    Anyway...back to the conversation at hand.

  12. #342
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    They are not shown defending the base, they are shown trying to fight off the hordes before they reach Earth. A futile gesture. And worrying about the future of Alpha Flight when The North American continent is at war seems unlikely. I don't for one minute think that is on any of their minds. I understand the desire to break down the shield and help, but they can't do that fighting an unending battle against wave after wave of aliens.
    Obviously, it is safe to assume Ewing does not care about the space station.

    On-page, it would make sense to assume that nobody can spare the time to move it. Every set of hands, per minute, occupied with moving the station is one less to stop the alien space monsters.


    No I think you may be bringing the reprehensible concept to the table. I didn't read it like that at all.
    Ewing may not have intended for them to be reprehensible. Maybe a better way for me to have phrased my initial question is "why does Ewing seem to be having the characters be reprehensible?" Is he being clumsy, or making some larger point? What would that larger point be?"


    Being saddened at a whole lot of living beings dying completely senselessly is reprehensible?
    In this case, yes.

    The living beings are alien-space-monsters from hell. Said space monsters are threatening the characters and the characters' home planet. There is zero cause to get weepy over them dying in large numbers, even assuming there are not more important problems to worry about. Having the characters state on page that the space monsters are hive-minded abominations just makes them getting weepy seem even more nonsensical.

    I am fine with the characters being morally deficient in some way. I am just wondering what Ewing's point here is, or if he understands the moral deficiency that he is bringing to the page.


    And can't you just imagine the smell.
    They are in space. Now, when the shield collapses, the upper atmosphere is going to smell like an outhouse. But, our heroes on in space and would still be safe from that. (I am seeing a really grotesque Woverine cross-over issue coming out of this....)


    This is my first post, but I'm not a troll, just new. I just read this book and I love some of the earlier books, but at first I could not tell if the art was for real.
    The art was not the best it has been. But, it was not *that* bad.

    If you worry over art, go read the first year's worth of "the Ultimate" (the precursor to the current series). Rocafort's art is gorgeous.
    Last edited by CentralPower; 05-20-2017 at 01:07 PM.
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  13. #343
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    The living beings are alien-space-monsters from hell. Said space monsters are threatening the characters and the characters' home planet. There is zero cause to get weepy over them dying in large numbers, even assuming there are not more important problems to worry about. Having the characters state on page that the space monsters are hive-minded abominations just makes them getting weepy seem even more nonsensical.
    I don't think this is supposed to be anything more than a lament for the environment.

    I was once forced to kill a large hornet swam in my kitchen. I didn't have any choice, they were super aggressive and the need to get rid of them was too urgent to use more environmentally sensitive options. I still found it sad sweeping up a couple of hundred dead insects. Until that fateful decision to try and find a warmer place to make a nest for the winter in my kitchen, they had been a highly successful colony of otherwise quite rare insects. Especially for the suburban area I was living in, where I hardly ever saw such creatures.

    These drones may be mindless killers but they are being manipulated by Steve. He has their sentient queen inside the shield. It is at the least an environmental disaster, it may even be wilful genocide.

    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    Rocafort's art is gorgeous.
    Now you went and made me miss him all over again.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 05-21-2017 at 12:51 AM.

  14. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodchuck78 View Post
    This is my first post, but I'm not a troll, just new. I just read this book and I love some of the earlier books, but at first I could not tell if the art was for real. To be honest, I wanted my money back after I opened this issue. Is this really the state of comics today? I recently got back into comics after a 22 year break. I'm shocked and disappointed. I'm talking about the current issue, issue 7. Is it just me?
    It's not just you the art is shit. The book looks awful and ppl shouldn't be paying 4 dollars for this.

  15. #345
    Fantastic Member GrandEleven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post

    On-page, it would make sense to assume that nobody can spare the time to move it. Every set of hands, per minute, occupied with moving the station is one less to stop the alien space monsters.
    They already established there are breaks between the waves. Shield is up, there is no longer any need to sit in the way. Pretty simple. you can look for weaknesses in the shield _without_ needlessly exhausting yourself vs. millions of drones.


    The art was not the best it has been. But, it was not *that* bad.
    IMO it was awful. The worst I've seen in a good long while. I'm hopeful it's because this issue was rushed last minute as they had to shoehorn in a cross-over and all the TLC is going into the main story line when it returns.
    Last edited by GrandEleven; 05-21-2017 at 08:55 AM.

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