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  1. #1
    Mighty Member Mr. Mastermind's Avatar
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    Default Controversial Superman Opinions

    A thread for your controversial and unpopular views on Superman where other posters are free to debate those views.

    Some of mine off the top of my head:

    Superman's portrayal in The Dark Knight Returns is actually better and more in character than his portrayal in Kingdom Come. In DKR, Superman is forced into a difficult position but still tries to save lives, whilst in Kingdom Come he quits because the public supports killing a mass murderer. Superman quitting because public opinion goes against him seems very un-Superman like to me. DKR's main sin here seems to be Superman's emasculation, which doesn't make it a bad portrayal.

    Superman shouldn't be more powerful than the rest of the JL except Batman. The 6 founders should all have equal levels of power. And there should be much less contrived fights between heroes.

    Darkseid should never be considered a Superman villain.

    For Tomorrow was a good story.

    Silver Age inspired sci fi stories should be the template of the franchise.

    Clark quitting the Daily Planet was a great idea and should have been used more.

  2. #2
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    As I recall, didnt Superman join the government in DKR because he and Bruce agreed someone had to try to change things from the inside and retain some control over what the government did with its superhuman weapons? Struck me as a sacrifice on Clark's part. Im not a fan of "establishment man" but I feel like the context of that turn is often ignored so we can complain about how out of character it was (and Im guilty of doing it too).

    Agree about Kingdom Come. As much as I love that story it got Clark wrong in a lot of ways.

    Here's a somewhat controversial opinion no one who knows me will be surprised by; post-Crisis was a wonderful era for most of Superman's supporting cast and setting but gave us the absolute worst version of Superman to ever see print; leaning away from the nuanced depth of the character in favor of some short sighted and ill-conceived attempt to "Marvel-ize" him for a new generation that DC didnt believe could handle the complexities of Superman's duel existence.
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  3. #3
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    I disagree about the seven original JLAers needing to be all at the same power level. Mainly because the perceived weaknesses in the League were used to show their real strength. In the early adventures by Gardner Fox--such as "The Riddle of the Robot Justice League"--he proved that even those members who didn't seem to have the greatest powers were often the ones who offered the necessary solution to a case. And also that it was the teamwork of the League, rather than individual members, that won the day.

    Usually the challenge facing the JLA was scientific in nature and it didn't require brute strength to defeat their foes. It was more a game of strategies--that's why Barry Allen, Ray Palmer and Bruce Wayne are valuable to the team--because they're clever, each in his own way.

    My controversial opinion is that Superman should be smart, too.

  4. #4
    Hi-Fi Fight Club Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever's Avatar
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    Where do I even begin.
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  5. #5
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I'm not crazy about a Superman in T-shirt and jeans unless it's Superboy .

  6. #6
    Invincible Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    The New 52 suit is better than the current one. I liked it from the start, sue me.

    Doomsday has more potential than most think if the "Kryptonian myth/boogeyman" idea is played upon and explored far more.

    The longer the cape, the better.

    He looked cool with the long hair outside of certain artists who couldn't draw it right.

    In terms of brute strength he should significantly stronger than all his comrades, with the only ones close being Wonder Woman, J'onn, and Aquaman in that order.

    Superman is significantly smarter on an intellectual level than every human with the exception of Lex Luthor, of whom he's still smarter but not by as much as Lex is the smartest human being on Earth. I'm sorry if that's OP but he is of a blood-line that is respected by Brainiac for its brain power. Dude is well beyond a human level of intelligence, and that includes Bruce Wayne and Michael Holt. That just should be the way it is unless they change these basic facts about Kryptonians and specifically the El line.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 11-30-2016 at 08:24 PM.
    They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son. - Jor-El.

  7. #7
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Here's a somewhat controversial opinion no one who knows me will be surprised by; post-Crisis was a wonderful era for most of Superman's supporting cast and setting but gave us the absolute worst version of Superman to ever see print; leaning away from the nuanced depth of the character in favor of some short sighted and ill-conceived attempt to "Marvel-ize" him for a new generation that DC didnt believe could handle the complexities of Superman's duel existence.
    On the other hand, I love pre crisis Superman. For sheer fun I think he has entire years to his credit. Yet I think that the reason he came under criticism, the reason he waned and got replaced with a better selling version is that the critics were right. In terms of depth he was somewhere between Fred Flintstone and Popeye. It was a death sentence in an era where the comics before and after the one you were reading were expected to matter. He was static and his world had no diversity. In the end, he was lucky that those creators who were loyal were also talented and productive, because they barely avoided not getting completely blown up by the hot writers and artists who were bringing new stuff to the mainstream table.

  8. #8
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Superman is not just "a dream of a farmer from Kansas". Clark grew up on a farm, but it hardly defines him at all.

    I'd move "Clark Kent" away from the Daily Planet. He'd no longer be a newspaperman. The only reason that was important for him, was it gave him a flexible schedule and a job close to the news as it happened. In today's world there are other ways to go about that. I'd use "Clark Kent" as more of a byline. A writer and social justice journalist. He'd rarely be seen places. Lois would cross paths with him and become interested in the enigma of Mr. Kent, which would lead to her figuring his secret out. Superman would have multiple IDs, but Clark Kent was who he was raised as so it is who he spends his off time as.

    I prefer Krypto in his New 52 form, and I loved the New 52 suit as drawn by Rags Morales.

    Hmmm.

    This whole doppelganger Superman from a dead time line thing is especially hard for me to get into, personally. I don't usually differentiate Supermen like that. I'm always reading about the same guy. I don't have much use for "Pre-Crisis this" or "Post-Flashpoint that"- it's all the same Superman to me. So, constantly being pulled out of the story by a reminder that this is not the correct Superman for the timeline or whatever, is ridiculously jarring.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 11-30-2016 at 08:28 PM.
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  9. #9
    Hi-Fi Fight Club Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever's Avatar
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    I was surprised Mark Waid said this, because I've always seen him as a traditionalist when it came to Superman, but I keep overlooking that he was the first writer to make Superman vegetarian in canon.

    My preferred take on Clark growing up is that he does grow up in a rural area with not many minorities, but he grows up witnessing, experiencing, and combating discrimination. Gods & Monsters did something like this, but it was used to make that Superman not so 'Superman-like', which is not the direction I'd like for it go.

    Ostrander touched on it a little bit when he had Martian Manhunter posing as a black guy that helped out at the Kent farm.
    Creativity without constraint comes with responsibility. We do not make art in a vacuum isolated from sociopolitical context - RG

  10. #10
    Invincible Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    All too easy to just make Smallville more diverse. I mean he didn't arrive in 1938 Kansas anymore. There's absolutely no stretch that his rural hometown would be populated by more than white folk. He doesn't have to have the place he grew up changed to a big city to add that.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 11-30-2016 at 09:15 PM.
    They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son. - Jor-El.

  11. #11

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    Controversial huh? Whoo..boy. Where to begin,

    How about we start with Lois never figuring out Clark is Supes. Yeah, I know, blasphemy! To most that would make Lois either an idiot or incompetent for someone who is a Pulitzer prize winning reporter however, when you have someone who already defies the laws of physics and can do almost anything and is near omnipotent then you're never going to figure out who he is unless he wants you to. Pair of glasses or not.

    Secondly like Sacred has said I too like the n52 suit (not against the classic either or Superdad's but make the boots red)

    He shouldn't be highly susceptible to mental attacks. In fact it should be rather difficult to brainwash or overwhelm him mentally seeing as he has a strong mental will of sorts if I remember correctly. No more of Supes going evil trope. Getting real tired of it to tell you the truth.

    As most here have already said, make him smart. Or utilize his intelligence more.

    Kents should be dead by the time Clark officially becomes Superman (or preferably keep Morrison's action origin). They should only be alive to nurture Clark until his senior year of high school or early college age and instill within him the humble Kent values necessary for him to become the man he is meant to be.

    Biggest controversy to most, Clark does not have to end up with Lois (not against the status quo at all but it doesn't hurt to change things around a bit).
    "So as I pray, Unlimited Pak Works!"

  12. #12
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    On the other hand, I love pre crisis Superman. For sheer fun I think he has entire years to his credit. Yet I think that the reason he came under criticism, the reason he waned and got replaced with a better selling version is that the critics were right. In terms of depth he was somewhere between Fred Flintstone and Popeye. It was a death sentence in an era where the comics before and after the one you were reading were expected to matter. He was static and his world had no diversity. In the end, he was lucky that those creators who were loyal were also talented and productive, because they barely avoided not getting completely blown up by the hot writers and artists who were bringing new stuff to the mainstream table.
    Your certainly not wrong, but I think a part of that is also the shift in the medium. I mean, its not like Barry Allen had much of a personality to him in 1965 either.

    My real issue however is how Byrne played Clark as a regular Joe with a regular life (I mean, who isnt prom king and star quarterback and honor roll with perfect parents and the hot girl on your arm?) who happened to have super powers. I do believe that, at the time, he did what needed to be done from a business standpoint. But he basically pulled the carpet out from under Superman's personality and made sweeping changes that simplified the character in a detrimental way.

    I think that one of the reasons why Batman has surpassed Superman both in popularity and as a character (fu*k that hurts to say!) is that Bruce has been continually built up over the years. He hasn't suffered from the reboots like Clark has, and those reductions in the Super-mythos have caused the property and Superman himself to be stunted in their development. If Clark had been allowed to evolve along his natural path instead of being torn off on tangent after tangent, we'd be seeing the kind of nuance and depth in the comics that posters here like Superlad, Dispenser of Truth, and others talk about.

    But this isnt supposed to be a "post-Crisis bashing" thread so let's move on before we derail things.

    Controversial opinion: The concept of Supergirl; Superman's cousin from Krypton, is absurd in the worst ways. Kara is a fun, viable character who I often enjoy but her origin is the absolute worst thing ever.
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  13. #13
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clementine - The Worst Poster Ever View Post
    I was surprised Mark Waid said this, because I've always seen him as a traditionalist when it came to Superman, but I keep overlooking that he was the first writer to make Superman vegetarian in canon.
    Back in the day the Kents ran the local convenience store in Smallville after selling the farm and Clark spent most of his Superboy days sneaking in and out of the shop. Waid's suggestion is certainly more...extreme....but not so terribly far removed from that.
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  14. #14
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Oh! Oh! Okay...um....

    1) Moving Metropolis to Kansas like they did in Smallville actually makes more sense because it's a state not known for large cities. As opposed to a coastal state where all the other major cities already are. Otherwise the name Metropolis makes no sense.

    2) Superman should at least have super-strength from day one on Earth. All other powers are optional as to when he gets them.

    3) The pre-Crisis Superman probably could have been saved if they had taken the "old" talent off it a decade earlier and hadn't been afraid to experiment. Such as letting him have a real relationship with Lois.

    4) The New 52 reboot was necessary because Superman's history was too convoluted and needed to be simplified. Johns SO sucked and tried to be everything to everyone and failed on both counts.

    5) Superman TAS was a flawed version of Superman. His power levels kept fluctuating, Removing the S from the back of his cape set a precedent in all other animated versions, and he was more or less Batman's stooge when they were together.

    6) They should really bring back the pre-Flashpoint Conner Kent. And, if possible, find a way to bring back Jonathon and Martha Kent.

    7) I've never liked Krypto. Don't know why, just seemed kind of strange.

    8) Superman should always be more respected than Batman (I guess that's not really a "controversial opinion" on this board).

    9) I also understand why Superman made the decision he did to become a government stooge in DKR. It was a total Superman move. Sacrifice himself to save the others.

    10) I think the Kingdom Come Superman has been portrayed much more dignified in later portrayals than he was in the original book.

    11) "Krypton" should be a mistranslation. It doesn't make any sense for an alien planet to be named after an Earth element.

    12) The Superman from the Supergirl TV show should get his own show. It's past time he returned to TV on his own show and not with some gimmick like he's a teenager or rom/com.

    13) New 52 Superman should be brought back in some form and allowed to have a normal life. Even if it isn't as the main Superman.

    14) Superman has been rebooted too many times.

    15) I think having the entire town know about Clark's powers in American Alien is eventually going to come back to bite him. You can't have a town of about 2000 people know the biggest secret in the world and expect all of them to sit on it forever.

    16) Wonder Woman should have an unrequited crush on Superman.

    17) The pre-Crisis Fortress is coolest. Far and away.

    18) The movie franchise should be rebooted. And speaking of...

    19) Superman Returns really isn't that bad a movie. I understand why people didn't like it though.

    20) Superman should travel to Earth Prime and learn about every version of him that has ever existed.

    21) Perry should know that Clark is Superman. He wouldn't be a very good newsman if he didn't.

    22) Sooner or later, the Planet will have to be dropped. Papers are dying and there is no way to avoid that.

    That should cover it for now...
    Last edited by superduperman; 11-30-2016 at 09:33 PM.
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  15. #15
    Incredible Member Agniwolf's Avatar
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    N52 armor >(insert void here)> classic suit

    hiper intelligent and and sees lex as a challenge (for a human) and bruce amuses him

    can do everything of the league by himself but likes the league for the sake of being "at various places" at the same time

    likes fierce and powerful women, eats meat and is the housekeeper by nature

    krypto direwolf is the coolest superdog

    i prefer lara as the main parental figure over jor, ma and pa kent

    likes to write, and is a great storyteller thanks to his experiences in journalism

    has a temper, but hardly is controled by it

    greatest prankster in the planet, in fact his best victories are pranks against villains instead of brawns

    will kill if no other choice ( but those are reaaaaaaaaaaaally rare if any at all) but does not like ever the idea of having to do it

    likes to invent and research things if possible

    is not poor nor pities himself if he "doesnt struggle like everyone else". does not likes the inequality in meritocracy

    likes to fly into space

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