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  1. #4936
    Astonishing Member Man of Sin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    An idiotic theme considering the X-Men are heroes and will always fight, no matter the odds(and the fact that there are many timetraveling/timeline changing story arcs in the canon).
    And the X-Men deal with bad futures a lot as well.
    "Did you know that half of the teens in America are virgins? Not because they haven't the right person, but they haven't found the right teacher. " ~ Arsenio Hall

  2. #4937

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    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Sin View Post
    And the X-Men deal with bad futures a lot as well.
    There are infinite universes; there has never been a theme of one consistent timeline prevailing over any other.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  3. #4938
    Mutatis Mutandis ChildOfTheAtom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Sin View Post
    And the X-Men deal with bad futures a lot as well.
    I wonder if they did it again in Dark Phoenix? Cudmore rumors I read a while back. idk
    The agreement also provides Disney with the opportunity to reunite the X-Men with the Marvel family under one roof and create richer, more complex worlds of inter-related characters and stories that audiences have shown they love.

  4. #4939
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Sin View Post
    And the people who wiped them out were the ones that said they benefit society. They can cure cancer, save the world, save the president, etc.

    So even before the whole near extinction plan went into motion people saw mutants as useful.
    Logan presents a narrative where humans saw mutants as so destructive and such a threat to mankind that they controlled them through near extinction. They literally whittled their numbers down to a number they could control and manage, and then on top of that they performed horrible experiments on the ones they genetically grew in their labs. Your example literally undercuts your argument.

    Not to mention the events of Logan take place so far after DOFP and Apocalypse, and even arguably in an alternate timeline, that it has no real relevance to the events of DOFP and Apocalypse. So your argument makes no sense.

  5. #4940
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGilkison View Post
    Not to mention the events of Logan take place so far after DOFP

    I think it's only like 5 years maybe. Which is sad because of the final scene of DoFP. Very sweet scene
    The agreement also provides Disney with the opportunity to reunite the X-Men with the Marvel family under one roof and create richer, more complex worlds of inter-related characters and stories that audiences have shown they love.

  6. #4941
    Astonishing Member Man of Sin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGilkison View Post
    Logan presents a narrative where humans saw mutants as so destructive and such a threat to mankind that they controlled them through near extinction. They literally whittled their numbers down to a number they could control and manage, and then on top of that they performed horrible experiments on the ones they genetically grew in their labs. Your example literally undercuts your argument.
    No, Logan presents a narrative where the X-Men are view as heroes by the gerenal public, complete with merchandise. That’s actually a plot point in the movie and how Laura meet Logan. Did you forget about this?

    The people trying to lower the mutant population are just a small group of people, similar to a hate group. It’s like how there are openly gay celebrities in the world but there are still homophobic hate groups. And the X-Men have been a metaphor for homosexuals for a long time.

    Not to mention the events of Logan take place so far after DOFP and Apocalypse, and even arguably in an alternate timeline, that it has no real relevance to the events of DOFP and Apocalypse. So your argument makes no sense.
    It’s not in an alternate timeline as confirmed by producers and the director. It only takes place a few years after DOFP.
    "Did you know that half of the teens in America are virgins? Not because they haven't the right person, but they haven't found the right teacher. " ~ Arsenio Hall

  7. #4942
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Sin View Post
    No, Logan presents a narrative where the X-Men are view as heroes by the gerenal public, complete with merchandise. That’s actually a plot point in the movie and how Laura meet Logan. Did you forget about this?

    The people trying to lower the mutant population are just a small group of people, similar to a hate group. It’s like how there are openly gay celebrities in the world but there are still homophobic hate groups. And the X-Men have been a metaphor for homosexuals for a long time.
    Logan still presents humans fearing mutants as the primary narrative that it focuses on. It doesn't present things going so well that Xavier is thinking of letting humans into the Institute. We don't even know who made those comic books in the first place in the movie, or if the events of Logan truly even take place in the same universe as DOFP and Apocalypse.



    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Sin View Post
    It’s not in an alternate timeline as confirmed by producers and the director. It only takes place a few years after DOFP.
    Yeah? Well the director of Logan also said he didn't care about the continuity very much at all, or how Logan lined up with everything else, and that the focus on the continuity is one of the things he hates about the current MCU and comic book movies in general. So forgive me if I take his double talk with a grain of salt.

    And I was specifically referring to the events of the 1970's in DOFP, not the future stuff. There is no way the world would be so accepting of mutants after Magneto crashed a stadium around the White House and declared war against humanity.
    Last edited by AndrewGilkison; 01-13-2018 at 07:41 PM.

  8. #4943
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGilkison View Post
    Logan still presents humans fearing mutants as the primary narrative that it focuses on. It doesn't present things going so well that Xavier is thinking of letting humans into the Institute. We don't even know who made those comic books in the first place, or if the events of Logan truly even take place in the same universe as DOFP and Apocalypse.
    Except it’s not the primary focus considering the reason why Mutants are gone is not even revealed until the end of the movie. The narrative spend way more time estblishing how the X-Men and Wolverine were famous.

    Yeah? Well the director of Logan also said he didn't care about the continuity very much at all, or how Logan lined up with everything else, and that the focus on the continuity is one of the things he hates about the current MCU and comic book movies in general. So forgive me if I take his double talk with a grain of salt.

    And I was specifically referring to the events of the 1970's in DOFP, not the future stuff. There is no way the world would be so accepting of mutants after Magneto crashed a stadium around the White House and declared war against humanity.
    Here is the thing: Magneto didn’t declare war, but gave a warning to those would fuck with mutants and wanted to use the president as an example because he supported the sentinel program. Go rewatch the scene.

    Also, Mystique saved the president and showed how useful mutants can be.
    "Did you know that half of the teens in America are virgins? Not because they haven't the right person, but they haven't found the right teacher. " ~ Arsenio Hall

  9. #4944
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Sin View Post
    Except it’s not the primary focus considering the reason why Mutants are gone is not even revealed until the end of the movie. The narrative spend way more time estblishing how the X-Men and Wolverine were famous.
    The narrative spends way more time having Logan and Xavier in hiding, because humans are trying to track them down because Xavier is viewed as a threat. Doesn't exactly seem like an accepting and friendly world for mutants to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Sin View Post
    Here is the thing: Magneto didn’t declare war, but gave a warning to those would fuck with mutants and wanted to use the president as an example because he supported the sentinel program. Go rewatch the scene.

    Also, Mystique saved the president and showed how useful mutants can be.
    Being "useful" doesn't mean the same thing as being accepted. Stryker in X2 viewed mutants as "useful". The world of that movie was still mostly fearful of and hostile towards mutants.

    There is no way the world would be accepting of mutants after what Magneto did in the climax of DOFP. There is damn sure no way mutants would be accepted after Apocalypse and four other mutants killed untold numbers of people and leveled cities, so already the beginning of Dark Phoenix makes no sense.
    Last edited by AndrewGilkison; 01-13-2018 at 08:16 PM.

  10. #4945
    Astonishing Member Man of Sin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGilkison View Post
    The narrative spends way more time having Logan and Xavier on the run, in hiding, because humans are trying to track them down because Xavier is viewed as a threat. Doesn't exactly seem like an accepting and friendly world for mutants to me.
    That’s because Xavier was indeed a legitimate threat after the incident. He can’t control his powers and it caused several casualties(which were only mutants). You act as if they labeled all mutants as dangerous.


    Being "useful" doesn't mean the same thing as being accepted. Stryker in X2 viewed mutants as "useful". The world of that movie was still mostly fearful of and hostile towards mutants.
    Except he didn’t see them as useful since he wanted them all died.

    There is no way the world would be accepting of mutants after what Magneto did in the climax of DOFP. There is damn sure no way mutants would be accepted after Apocalypse and four other mutants killed untold numbers of people and leveled cities, so already the beginning of Dark Phoenix makes no sense.
    Dude, it was the president that first threatened to hunt mutants with giant robots. Even Congress was against the sentinel program because they thought it was wrong. So to many would see Nixon in the wrong and Magneto as being reactionary.

    As for Apocalypse, do you think the general public hates all middle eastern people after 9/11? There are those types of people but most don’t label all of them as terrorist.
    Last edited by Man of Sin; 01-13-2018 at 08:39 PM.
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  11. #4946
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    I haven't watched DoFP in a while. Didn't the President only approve the Sentinels because Trask pressured him with the recent Mystique attack and Magneto breaking out of custody?

  12. #4947
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    I haven't watched DoFP in a while. Didn't the President only approve the Sentinels because Trask pressured him with the recent Mystique attack and Magneto breaking out of custody?
    He wasn’t pressured by persuaded by Trask’s propaganda.
    "Did you know that half of the teens in America are virgins? Not because they haven't the right person, but they haven't found the right teacher. " ~ Arsenio Hall

  13. #4948
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Sin View Post
    Thatís because Xavier was indeed a legitimate threat after the incident. He canít control his powers and it caused several casualties(which were only mutants). You act as if they labeled all mutants as dangerous.
    Logically... why wouldn't they label all of them as dangerous after that? You mean to tell me that incident wouldn't have put mutants under scrutiny? That humanity wouldn't fear mutants after one of them killed a bunch of people by having a seizure? Not bloody likely.


    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Sin View Post
    Except he didnít see them as useful since he wanted them all died.
    And he used other mutants to try and do it. So yeah... he clearly saw them as useful... up to a point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Sin View Post
    Dude, it was the president that first threatened to hunt mutants with giant robots. Even Congress was against the sentinel program because they thought it was wrong. So to many would see Nixon in the wrong and Magneto as being reactionary.

    As for Apocalypse, do you think the general public hates all middle eastern people after 9/11? There were those type of people but most donít label all of them as terrorist.
    Donald Trump won the 2016 Presidential Election primarily based on how he talked about women and minorities. Our current climate is no more accepting and friendly towards minorities than it was on the day of 9/11. People actually voted for Trump because they believed he was going to build a wall to keep Mexicans out, and actually defend him calling Haiti a shithole. We clearly don't live in the hopeful and optimistic world that you seem to think we do.

    Logically... why would humanity accept mutants? Why would the X-Men EVER be revered heroes in any universe? Being famous is one thing. Being a hero among mutants is one thing. But there is no way the X-Men should ever be as celebrated as the Avengers and the Fantastic Four are. Any movie that makes them so misses the point of the X-Men entirely.

  14. #4949
    Astonishing Member Man of Sin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewGilkison View Post
    Logically... why wouldn't they label all of them as dangerous after that? You mean to tell me that incident wouldn't have put mutants under scrutiny? That humanity wouldn't fear mutants after one of them killed a bunch of people by having a seizure? Not bloody likely.
    And that is besides the point.

    And he used other mutants to try and do it. So yeah... he clearly saw them as useful... up to a point.
    And yes, before he started to hate mutants.

    Donald Trump won the 2016 Presidential Election primarily based on how he talked about women and minorities. Our current climate is no more accepting and friendly towards minorities than it was on the day of 9/11. People actually voted for Trump because they believed he was going to build a wall to keep Mexicans out, and actually defend him calling Haiti a shithole. We clearly don't live in the hopeful and optimistic world that you seem to think we do.
    You’re seriously arguing that there aren’t a lot of people that don’t see eye to eye with Trump? He only won the electoral vote, not the popular vote. Also, you’re comparing Trump talking shit to a president that was going to send giant robots to kill people. Seriously?

    Logically... why would humanity accept mutants? Why would the X-Men EVER be revered heroes in any universe? Being famous is one thing. Being a hero among mutants is one thing. But there is no way the X-Men should ever be as celebrated as the Avengers and the Fantastic Four are. Any movie that makes them so misses the point of the X-Men entirely.
    Because the X-Men are going around saving the world and the X-Men(or shall I say X-Factor) were celebrated as heroes in the original Horsemen storyline because they stopped Apocalypse.

    Last edited by Man of Sin; 01-13-2018 at 09:19 PM.
    "Did you know that half of the teens in America are virgins? Not because they haven't the right person, but they haven't found the right teacher. " ~ Arsenio Hall

  15. #4950
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Sin View Post
    And that is besides the point.
    Why is it beside the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Sin View Post
    And yes, before he started to hate mutants.
    He was still using them right up to the end of X2. He tried to use his son to murder every mutant across the planet earth. So clearly no matter how "useful" he found them he wasn't especially tolerant and accepting of them.



    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Sin View Post
    You’re seriously arguing that aren’t a lot of people don’t see eye to eye with Trump? He only won the electoral vote, not the popular vote. Also, you’re comparing Trump talking shit to a president that was going to send giant robots to kill people. Seriously?
    Enough people saw eye to eye with Trump to vote him into office. The people who voted for him agree with the hateful rhetoric he spews. He gives them a voice. They agree with the things he wants to do. There were enough of them to give him the Presidency, and he still has a 50/50 chance of winning reelection.

    We don't live in a world that would accept mutants.

    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Sin View Post
    Because the X-Men are going around saving the world and the X-Men(or shall I say X-Factor) were celebrated as heroes in the original Horsemen storyline because they stopped Apocalypse.

    The X-Men save the world all the time in the comic books and most of the time they don't get those kinds of parades. That's because X-Men being that revered and celebrated all the time would go against the core of what the concept is supposed to be about.
    Last edited by AndrewGilkison; 01-13-2018 at 10:04 PM.

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