Page 12 of 13 FirstFirst ... 28910111213 LastLast
Results 166 to 180 of 190
  1. #166

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    De-linking Wonder Girl from Wonder Woman has never been a good thing, yet it continues. Even before COIE, the two didn't have much connection to each other. In fact--at the time that Marv Wolfman wrote the original origin story for Wonder Girl, now with the name Donna Troy, in TEEN TITANS 22 (July-August '69)--powerless Diana was having her mod adventures, sans lasso, while all the other Amazons had gone off into another dimension. So even when that first origin was concocted it didn't jibe with the continuity.
    QFT. (And I don't think I've ever used that abbrevation before! )

    They retconned an origin for Donna (a pretty good one) and more or less suggested she was "Diana's sidekick," in much the same way the other O5 Titans were sidekicks to their mentors. But they never backed it up with stories, current or flashbacks. She didn't appear in Wonder Woman's comics. She wasn't living with Diana Prince - or, as far as I could tell, anyone at all. She was more an idea of a character situated in the DCU like Robin, Kid Flash, Aqualad, and Speedy were - but not actually a fleshed-out character, even to the extent they were (which, admittedly, was variable). This may be one of the reasons it was so easy for them to just completely revamp her origin and severe her ties to Diana, Hippolyta, and the Amazons. (Much like they just decided Wonder Woman was no longer a founder of the Justice League.) But, like you, I don't think that was a good thing for the character. And it set the precedent of, "well, we can just make up whatever we want to about where she came from and even what she is, over and over again."

    I was fine with Wonder Woman having a long career--long enough to have saved the child from the fire--because as an Amazon she could have been around for a long time. And I think the continuity was fuzzy about when Steve Trevor crashed on Paradise Island--the updated version would have had him crashing during the Korean War. Which would still give Wonder Woman more than twenty years in the star-spangles.

    This was also when the Weisinger comics said that Superman had first appeared in 1938. The attitude towards time was different back then, before DC copied the Marvel approach to time.

    The current comics should copy the popular version from the movie. Diana should be very old yet look young. And Donna should have grown up with Diana as a mentor and a role model.
    I think that's a question of when you want Diana to first come to Man's World and start her career as Wonder Woman, relative to when Superman and Batman start out. You'll get a lot of opinions on that. And I'm not sure that what works in the movies necessarily works in the comics.
    Doctor Bifrost

    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

  2. #167
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    2,321

    Default

    Even though Donna's origin as adopted kid sister was a retcon compared to actual stories with their mentors in the case of Robin, Aqualad, Speedy, and Kid Flash, it ultimately weakened her character when they divorced her from her connection to Diana and the Amazons.

    I wish they'd found a way after COIE to somehow maintain it someway, even if it wasn't perfect, because then at least after the decision to go Clutter Earth we might have spent time over the years (and decades) getting some times past stories with Donna, Diana, and the Amazons strengthening the bond between them even though it didn't exist through stories in the first place.

    I'm asking for the impossible, but it would have saved us from Titan seeds, magic mirror twins, clay golems, etc. that just made her connection to Diana weaker instead of richer.

  3. #168

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    Even though Donna's origin as adopted kid sister was a retcon compared to actual stories with their mentors in the case of Robin, Aqualad, Speedy, and Kid Flash, it ultimately weakened her character when they divorced her from her connection to Diana and the Amazons.

    I wish they'd found a way after COIE to somehow maintain it someway, even if it wasn't perfect, because then at least after the decision to go Clutter Earth we might have spent time over the years (and decades) getting some times past stories with Donna, Diana, and the Amazons strengthening the bond between them even though it didn't exist through stories in the first place.

    I'm asking for the impossible...
    I don't think you're asking for the impossible at all. It could have been done.

    Use the Hippolyta-saved-Donna-Troy-from-a-fire version. Then, a few months after Diana goes to Man's World, her little sister (who has gained powers, however) follows her, hoping to help her in her mission.

    BUT: In Donna's passage from Themysicra to Man's World, something happens - big deal, serious story, dangerous magical villain involved - and she is thrown five years into the past. Realizing what has happened, she finds a place in Man's World, becomes the superhero Wonder Girl, joins the Teen Titans - and waits for her sister to arrive. Five years later, Diana appears. Big reunion! Much hugs! They continue to be the best of friends from that day forward.

    And Diana is probably given her Wonder Woman name by some reporter who recognizes her resemblance (costume, lasso, bracers) to the young superhero Wonder Girl.

    No, it's not perfect. And it doesn't have as much detail as I usually like to put into these things. I haven't spent much time recently thinking about "How would I have included Wonder Girl in the post-CoIE universe, given that the decision to have Wonder Woman start 'five years late' was unchangeable?" because that's not the set of restrictions that exist today. (In fact, at the end of Infinite Crisis - if I remember correctly - they restored Wonder Woman to her accustomed place, starting her superhero career at the same time as Superman and Batman. I was waiting to see how that affected Donna's history. I was still waiting when Flashpoint hit, then The New 52...)

    So that's just off the top of my head. But it suggests that there were ways - probably lots of ways - to maintain a strong link between Diana and Donna (along with Hippolyta and the rest of the Amazons) even with the situation as it was.

    ...but it would have saved us from Titan seeds, magic mirror twins, clay golems, etc. that just made her connection to Diana weaker instead of richer...
    And saved us from the string of precedents that suggest to new each writer that they might as well change Donna's origin to... well, just about anything. It's become a habit.

    They could fix this but instead they keep making it worse. I wonder what comes after the clay creature created to be a murderous weapon?
    Doctor Bifrost

    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

  4. #169
    Lv 67 Pinsir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Route 12
    Posts
    3,351

    Default

    I always liked the idea of Wondergirl being the younger version of Wonder Woman herself, though I admit to enjoying the New 52 genocide origin purely for the keks.
    Also visit my blog where I expose Wonder Woman for the criminal she is!

    How come these anonymous sources failed to report Zack Snyder had left post-production on Justice League? They seem to know everything now...

  5. #170
    Mighty Member marhawkman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    1,691

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    I prefer an origin that establishes Donna as Diana's beloved "little sister" (probably adoptive, but from an early age on) than an origin that skips that, but explains why it would be cool to see her punch Diana in the face.
    We could merge aspects. The source of Donna's powers doesn't need to define how she lives.

    Try this on for size:
    Donna is born like a normal human, and grows up not knowing she's actually a creation of Rhea.

    At some point, maybe early teens. Diana save Donna and takes her back to Themiscyra when she realizes she's not a normal human. Then Donna stays there for a few years because her family is dead. The Amazons treat her as one of them as she grows up, particularly Wonder Woman.

    Then after she's been there a few years she decides to go back, and when she joins the Teen Titans Dick asks her what her superhero name is. Donna suddenly blurts out Troia even though she's never heard that name spoken before.

    Stuff happens and later she meets Rhea and finds out that not only is she Rhea's creation but that Troia is the name Rhea gave her before she was born.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    Ah! Diana gets Cassie's origin. Donna gets Diana's origin. And maybe Cassie can be a human girl rescued from a fire and taken to mystical realm...

    Amazon Three-Card Monte!

    (No disrespect intended.)
    More like 4. Donna's current origin is closer to Deva than Diana. Wait.. so who get's Diana's old origin then?

  6. #171

    Default

    Basically just make her a shipwrecked orphan raised in themiscyra and grew up alongside Diana etc.

    KIS people.

  7. #172
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    13,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    Basically just make her a shipwrecked orphan raised in themiscyra and grew up alongside Diana etc.
    Still would have that idea contradicting what has been recently (not yet two years ago!) set up by Rucka under Rebirth in terms of the story about Diana's origin and Steve Trevor's crash landing onto Themyscira.

  8. #173
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    2,321

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    Basically just make her a shipwrecked orphan raised in themiscyra and grew up alongside Diana etc.

    KIS people.
    I could go with that KIS.

  9. #174
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    2,321

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Still would have that idea contradicting what has been recently (not yet two years ago!) set up by Rucka under Rebirth in terms of the story about Diana's origin and Steve Trevor's crash landing onto Themyscira.
    I'm taking a (praying for a) Doomsday Clock approach that resets the Wonderverse so that Donna is either older as a child/tween when taken to Themyscira after Diana has been active in the world for a while before Donna joins the other Teen Titans. This could help with the age thing compared to the other Teen Titans.

    Or, Donna gets shipwrecked and saved by the Amazons at some point in her past.

    For the latter, that could happen at any point when a Donna was younger or an infant and before Steve lands on the island. It could be retconned that Donna was already there when Steve lands, but doesn't leave herself for Man's World until Diana has been operating for a few years. Also, Donna could get her superpowers by some method during her stay on Themyscira.

    It changes quite a bit of lore, but as long as I'm retconning, I might as well dream BIG.

  10. #175

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Still would have that idea contradicting what has been recently (not yet two years ago!) set up by Rucka under Rebirth in terms of the story about Diana's origin and Steve Trevor's crash landing onto Themyscira.
    Well what's different in rebirth?

  11. #176
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    6,123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    Well what's different in rebirth?
    Outsiders don't come to the island prior to Steve's crash. Them breaching the veil is a big deal.

  12. #177
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Look East
    Posts
    4,774

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    Even though Donna's origin as adopted kid sister was a retcon compared to actual stories with their mentors in the case of Robin, Aqualad, Speedy, and Kid Flash, it ultimately weakened her character when they divorced her from her connection to Diana and the Amazons.

    I wish they'd found a way after COIE to somehow maintain it someway, even if it wasn't perfect, because then at least after the decision to go Clutter Earth we might have spent time over the years (and decades) getting some times past stories with Donna, Diana, and the Amazons strengthening the bond between them even though it didn't exist through stories in the first place.

    I'm asking for the impossible, but it would have saved us from Titan seeds, magic mirror twins, clay golems, etc. that just made her connection to Diana weaker instead of richer.
    Maintaining it wouldn't have been hard all actually if DC had the presence of mind to actually let Diana and Donna be let's say adoptive sisters who left the island when Steve Trevor crash lands or something. But DC just didn't think it through and just gave Diana the same origin that made people's head scratch on how Donna and Diana are connected.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  13. #178
    Standing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    8,965

    Default

    I guess my preference would be that Diana is made from clay--a long time ago. Then closer to present day, under certain circumstances, Hippolyte meets a man (Captain Benjamin Troy) and she becomes pregnant with his child. She returns to Themyscira and has his baby but, under more circumstances I've yet to work out, the man comes to get his baby and Hippolyte is prevented from going after him for reasons.

    Diana becomes Wonder Woman and one day some sixth sense summons her to the scene of a fire, where she rescues a girl from the fire. She has an inkling that this is her sister and she gets her proof when a portal opens that allows both to return to Paradise Island (er, Themyscira). And the wonder child is returned to her mother.

    However, Captain Troy is still alive and the battle over the child is resolved by Shazam, using the wisdom of Solomon, deciding that the child should spend half her time with her father in America and half her time with the Amazons.
    What goes up must come down/Spinnin' wheel got to go 'round
    Talkin' 'bout your troubles it's a cryin' sin/Ride a painted pony
    let the spinnin' wheel spin

  14. #179
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    492

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    Basically just make her a shipwrecked orphan raised in themiscyra and grew up alongside Diana etc.

    KIS people.
    I strongly agree. If it doesn't mesh with whatever constitutes Wonder Woman's current, canonical backstory / origin story, then just re-jig Diana's history to make it fit. Diana's history has been completely re-written for any number of reasons over the years. Re-writing it to create a genuine, canonical and editorially supported between Diana and Donna would be hugely beneficial for both characters.

  15. #180
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    13,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent 86 View Post
    I strongly agree. If it doesn't mesh with whatever constitutes Wonder Woman's current, canonical backstory / origin story, then just re-jig Diana's history to make it fit. Diana's history has been completely re-written for any number of reasons over the years. Re-writing it to create a genuine, canonical and editorially supported between Diana and Donna would be hugely beneficial for both characters.
    Then again, there may be people sick of the "re-jigging" of Wonder Woman's origin/history to accommodate "lesser characters" and might feel Donna is the one who needs to have her backstory / origin story "re-jigged" to fit in to what's been currently established for the main character, Wonder Woman.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •