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  1. #181
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianbarreilles View Post
    To be honest at this point I really don't think there's really anything marvel and their writers can to dissuade Carol's detractors from their hatred for the character.
    I'm not so sure about that. There's always hope. You hear/read quite a few people here mention the "old Carol." I know that I sensed a change in her characterization from ancient history when I read her in Ms. Marvel and classic Avengers stories and now. Others have picked up on it, too. If Carol's journey is a song, well, clearly we've reached a "middle eight" that is dissonant for some. We'll just have to wait until Marvel re-transitions back to the chorus and the hook.

  2. #182

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Pretty much, yeah. I don't mind killing in the heat of battle, but flying someone who can't breathe in space into space to watch them suffocate and die . . . in retrospect, how was that much different from Karla Sofen literally dropping bodies as Dark Ms. Marvel in the Ms. Marvel issues that tied into Dark Reign?
    the bodies that Karla dropped belonged to innocent civilians. the skrulls, by comparison, are monsters. and they have, traditionally, been treated as such. Reed Richards thought so little of their humanity that he turned a few into cows; that were ground up and eaten. Spider-woman hunted and killed them with glee, as well. the skrulls invaded Earth. I promise you that, if someone invaded or attempted to invade New Jersey, people would be murdering them; with glee. I'm talking heads on sticks (like T'challa did to the skrull that showed up at his doorstep).
    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
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    11/10/2016

  3. #183
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    the bodies that Karla dropped belonged to innocent civilians. the skrulls, by comparison, are monsters. and they have, traditionally, been treated as such. Reed Richards thought so little of their humanity that he turned a few into cows; that were ground up and eaten. Spider-woman hunted and killed them with glee, as well. the skrulls invaded Earth. I promise you that, if someone invaded or attempted to invade New Jersey, people would be murdering them; with glee. I'm talking heads on sticks (like T'challa did to the skrull that showed up at his doorstep).
    Yeah, that's a point. War is hell, after all, and human beings, even superhuman beings, do have an innate savage side that civilization teaches them to repress, except in times of dire threat like war and/or invasion. Still f***ed up to me, though, but I guess I'm a bleeding heart who believes in Optimus Prime's credo that life is innately sacred regardless of who or what it belongs to, so taking it shouldn't be something to be gleeful about, even if it is "paying evil unto evil."
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  4. #184

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Yeah, that's a point. War is hell, after all, and human beings, even superhuman beings, do have an innate savage side that civilization teaches them to repress, except in times of dire threat like war and/or invasion. Still f***ed up to me, though, but I guess I'm a bleeding heart who believes in Optimus Prime's credo that life is innately sacred regardless of who or what it belongs to, so taking it shouldn't be something to be gleeful about, even if it is "paying evil unto evil."
    personally, I thought that her actions were pretty sadistic. I said as much, at the time. but you have to take the good and the bad with some characters. Carol's kind of a bloodthirsty. remember her skewering the Master of the World; in combat? this is just one of her quirks. she can be supportive of friends. she can be hard on friends. she can protect life. and she can cheer the loss of life. she's a 3 dimensional character.

    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
    Because its fun, not as fun as the liberal meltdown but close
    11/10/2016

  5. #185
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    personally, I thought that her actions were pretty sadistic. I said as much, at the time. but you have to take the good and the bad with some characters. Carol's kind of a bloodthirsty. remember her skewering the Master of the World; in combat? this is just one of her quirks. she can be supportive of friends. she can be hard on friends. she can protect life. and she can cheer the loss of life. she's a 3 dimensional character.

    Fair enough. Nice war propaganda poster cover, though. Given Carol's military background, it fits well.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  6. #186

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Fair enough. Nice war propaganda poster cover, though. Given Carol's military background, it fits well.
    the rest of the pick shows her cleavage and a "only good skrull is a dead skrull" button. but, yes, there were a lot of propaganda poster covers; on the stands. but they did make a point of having some of the Camp Hammond recruits give 3-D Man the cold shoulder for killing a skrull who was, unbeknownst to him, on the side of the "good guys." so it wasn't everyone who was seeing the skrulls as subhuman. they were still treated more gently than the Descendants.

    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
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    11/10/2016

  7. #187
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    How long has Marvel gone without killing off a major character now?

    Do we really need to kill yet another?

  8. #188
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    How long has Marvel gone without killing off a major character now?

    Do we really need to kill yet another?
    She's safe until her movie drops. Then all bets are off.

  9. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    She's safe until her movie drops. Then all bets are off.
    eh. Thor's first two movies weren't great. he was still around for the greatness of Ragnarok.
    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
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  10. #190
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    eh. Thor's first two movies weren't great. he was still around for the greatness of Ragnarok.
    However, Thor was part of the Avengers movie franchise.
    Does Carol have any movie universe connections yet?

  11. #191
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    eh. Thor's first two movies weren't great. he was still around for the greatness of Ragnarok.
    Thor movies weren't great, but they still did quite well when you take into account worldwide figures relative to budget. I think we all can agree that if CM doesn't do well at the box office, Marvel will change course on their push of her in the comics. But the movie isn't out until 2019. Quite a bit can happen between now and then.

  12. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    However, Thor was part of the Avengers movie franchise.
    Does Carol have any movie universe connections yet?
    Getting a movie is a connection. And it will involve skulls.
    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
    Because its fun, not as fun as the liberal meltdown but close
    11/10/2016

  13. #193
    Ultimate Member Holt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    She's safe until her movie drops. Then all bets are off.
    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    However, Thor was part of the Avengers movie franchise.
    Does Carol have any movie universe connections yet?
    She's going to be in Avengers 4. But even if she weren't, there's still pretty much no chance Marvel would kill her after a movie, unless it bombed.
    Last edited by Holt; 11-14-2017 at 01:31 PM.

  14. #194
    Incredible Member suemorphplus209's Avatar
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    No. Just give her a better writer.
    Currently Following: Batman, Detective Comics, Dark Knight 3, Flash, Amazing Spider-Man, Multiversity, Spider-Man, X-Men

    BRING BACK THE OLD WOLVERINE!!!

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    the rest of the pick shows her cleavage and a "only good skrull is a dead skrull" button. but, yes, there were a lot of propaganda poster covers; on the stands. but they did make a point of having some of the Camp Hammond recruits give 3-D Man the cold shoulder for killing a skrull who was, unbeknownst to him, on the side of the "good guys." so it wasn't everyone who was seeing the skrulls as subhuman. they were still treated more gently than the Descendants.

    Point taken. They were "artificial" or "synthetic," and that made their existences even less valuable and worthy of preservation than the invading extraterrestrials. That seems to be the case an awful lot in these things, probably because we can't yet relate to robots/cyborgs/androids/artificial (or synthetic/virtual) intelligence as being anything "like us" and thus deserving the same rights --- including the most fundamental right, to life --- as us.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

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