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  1. #1366
    Incredible Member C_Miller's Avatar
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    I disagree. Yes, drafting a kicker in the early rounds is a bad idea. But drafting one later may be one of the better value picks that you can get in the late round. I can't tell you how many times Dan Carpenter lost us games over the last two years, or just think of those Patriots Super Bowls if they didn't have Adam Vinatieri. Sure, a lot of the great kickers were UDFA, but if you want to secure a particular player before he hits the open market, maybe using a 7th rounder on him isn't the worst idea. Hell, most people down at that level are flyers anyways. And the chance that a late round kicker is better than a late round skill player is probably very good.

  2. #1367
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    I would rather take a flyer on a skill player in the 6th and 7th rds than a kicker or punter.
    I will fight. Forever. For everyone, whether they know it or not. Whether they are watching or not. I will always fight.---Daredevil

    "There is a difference between you and me. We both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back at us... you blinked."---Batman

    "I am a mad man with a box!"---The Doctor

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  3. #1368
    Class 5 Roaming Vapor BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    At least Janikowski did a lot to try to live up to his draft position (even if his accuracy was suspect in his rookie season - it got better his second year) - the guy has more 50+ yard field goals than anyone. Not sure if being nabbed in the first round wasn't a yuuuuge reach (but other teams have grabbed good special teamers early) but he has been on the Raiders roster since being drafted.
    He is also a beastly man and can defend himself. No blockers needed.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  4. #1369
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    I would rather take a flyer on a skill player in the 6th and 7th rds than a kicker or punter.
    Depends on what you are getting. All it takes is one team deciding that a really good kicker/punter is worth a 7th round pick, and anyone who thought to grab them as an UDFA gets to pick from the pack, rather than someone who might be ahead of it.

    There are plenty of examples out there where a really good punter or kicker (as opposed to an average one) has made the difference between winning the game and losing it. If that difference gets made in a playoff game (or the Superbowl) then the pick was worth the late round slot.

    Punters who can kick long distance AND make coffin corner placement when needed aren't as common as one might think - and neither are place kickers who are really good at both field goals and kickoffs. Even Devin Hester in his heyday can't return a ball that either goes through the end zone or arrives after the coverage unit does.

  5. #1370
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Bucs just released K Roberto Aguayo. They moved up into the 2nd rd last year to draft him. One year later, they're releasing him. LOL. And THAT'S why you don't spend a high draft pick on kickers.
    I will fight. Forever. For everyone, whether they know it or not. Whether they are watching or not. I will always fight.---Daredevil

    "There is a difference between you and me. We both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back at us... you blinked."---Batman

    "I am a mad man with a box!"---The Doctor

    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.---John 3:16

  6. #1371
    King of the Dragons Mister Ferro's Avatar
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    Rico Gathers can become a BEAST @ TE!!! I also like that Rush kid @ a potential 3rd string qb.

  7. #1372
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    Bucs just released K Roberto Aguayo. They moved up into the 2nd rd last year to draft him. One year later, they're releasing him. LOL. And THAT'S why you don't spend a high draft pick on kickers.
    By that logic high draft picks shouldn't be used on anyone, even quarterbacks. They might be a bust and get released.
    Last edited by Gray Lensman; 08-12-2017 at 09:37 PM.

  8. #1373
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    By that logic high draft picks shouldn't be used on anyone, even quarterbacks. They might be a bust and get released.
    Agreed. Many more quarterbacks drafted high, including first round picks have crashed and burned, some spectacularly.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  9. #1374
    Incredible Member C_Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    By that logic high draft picks shouldn't be used on anyone, even quarterbacks. They might be a bust and get released.
    The optics are certainly a little worse since kickers are generally thought of as something you don't draft high, but you're right on that. You can argue about potential all day, but is Roberto Aguayo really all that worse than Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf or Vernon Gholston or Aaron Maybin?

  10. #1375
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    I've seen my team use some mid round picks on kickers, starting with a 4th rounder on Gostkowski. But seeing as how he is one of the better field goal kickers out there, while also being one of the better ones at kickoffs (and has been able to transition from booming it out of the end zone to trying to pin the kick near the goal line) I think that was a draft pick well spent.

    And after the infamous 4th and 2 call against Indy, Bill used a 5th round pick for a punter (Zoltan Mesko). Little known background fact about that play, the Pats punter at the time was rated 33rd (not a miscount, btw) in the NFL. He was averaging a net of a little over 30 yards, and lack of confidence/ability in him cost the team some games.

    Mesko was replaced when Ryan Allen became available as a UDFA, which tells me at least 2 teams had morons making draft picks. 2 teams actually drafted a punter that year, but neither one took the only player to win back-to-back Ray Guy awards. Allen is one of the few punters who can handle both long distance punts (while still getting decent hang time) and also pull off coffin corner kicks. You'd think a guy like that would be worth at least a 6th or 7th round pick.

    New England consistently has one of the top special teams units in the NFL, and they rarely have a top tier returner in order to pull it off. They do it largely on the strength of their coverage units, which need two things to work. The first is a good kicker, the second is a fast player who can tackle (NE also tends to have a Pro Bowler or All-Pro in the coverage unit). The willingness to spend late round picks on special teams is why NE has one of the highest differentials in starting field position in the NFL.

    Several years ago the Colts lost a narrow (playoff) game to the Chargers on the strength of San Diego's special teams unit. Sproles had an insane amount of return yardage and Scifres was pinning Peyton's offense against the goal line for most of the game - normally inside the 10 yard line and only once in the game past the 20 yard line. Meanwhile San Diego was starting near the 50 yard line on the strength of those returns. Special Teams matter, even if not everyone values that aspect of the game.
    Last edited by Gray Lensman; 08-13-2017 at 11:28 AM.

  11. #1376
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Ferro View Post
    Rico Gathers can become a BEAST @ TE!!! I also like that Rush kid @ a potential 3rd string qb.
    Rush should be our #2. He has outplayed Moore by far. And I agree, Rico looks unstoppable. He's still raw and needs to work on his blocking, but he looks like he's going to be special.
    I will fight. Forever. For everyone, whether they know it or not. Whether they are watching or not. I will always fight.---Daredevil

    "There is a difference between you and me. We both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back at us... you blinked."---Batman

    "I am a mad man with a box!"---The Doctor

    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.---John 3:16

  12. #1377
    Fighting Injustice on CBR SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    As I posted a page ago , only 2 kickers have went in the last decade in the 2nd round. Its not like teams are all risking huge on special teams right now.
    "The story so far: As usual, Ginger and I are engaged in our quest to find out what the hell is going on and save humanity from my nemesis, some bastard who is presumably responsible." - Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

  13. #1378
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    An omen of bad times to come for the San Diego, oops, my bad, Los Angeles Chargers:

    The Chargers Couldn’t Even Fill StubHub Center For Their First Game In Los Angeles

    The writer, a San Diego resident made zero attempt to hide his glee at the Chargers' attendance woes as they only managed 21,054 for their game. To put that into perspective, the L.A. Galaxy of MLS which calls that stadium home pulled in 25,667 just the night before. More perspective, my Eagles averaged around 24,000 for two practice sessions open to fans. In a word----YIKES!
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  14. #1379
    formerly edhopper Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    An omen of bad times to come for the San Diego, oops, my bad, Los Angeles Chargers:

    The Chargers Couldn’t Even Fill StubHub Center For Their First Game In Los Angeles

    The writer, a San Diego resident made zero attempt to hide his glee at the Chargers' attendance woes as they only managed 21,054 for their game. To put that into perspective, the L.A. Galaxy of MLS which calls that stadium home pulled in 25,667 just the night before. More perspective, my Eagles averaged around 24,000 for two practice sessions open to fans. In a word----YIKES!
    Why would the people of Los Angeles go to Charger games? I doubt they will sell out any games unless they are in the playoff run. The owners made a big mistake in allowing this move.
    There came a time when the name edhopper died! The final moment came with the fatal release of indescribable power--which tore every post that bore the name edhopper asunder--split it linto a new identity, and filled CBR with the blinding death flash of it's destruction! In the end there was a new user name, spinning slow and barren, clean of all that had gone before, adrift in the fading sounds of binary thunder...THEN----THERE WAS KIRBY101

  15. #1380
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Can there be winners and losers after the first week of the preseason? I'd say that depends on your point of view:

    Biggest winners and losers from NFL preseason Week 1

    **********

    Well, how about takeaways after week 1 instead:

    Top takeaway for each Week 1 NFL preseason game
    Last edited by WestPhillyPunisher; 08-14-2017 at 07:42 AM.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

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