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  1. #31
    Elder Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordTrump View Post
    How in the heck does that even work?!!! So he's just Extremis Iron Man now?
    He's basically a humanoid Mother Box now, so really, if he were being written with the ability and utility and raw power he should have, he leaves Tony's extremis in the dust. Which is saying something considering what that armor was capable of.

    Vic should be the most dangerous, powerful person on the planet. With the arguable exceptions of Clark and Barry and Diana. Everyone else, including Hal, should be well below Vic in terms of power. The guy should be Boom Tubing across dimensions and space, having epic hack battles in cyberspace against electrical-based energy creatures, and blowing up hostile, sentient islands. He should be hounded by the mad scientists of Apokolips, be able to control everything connected to the internet, including military drones and satellites, and still have the physical prowess to go toe-to-toe with the heaviest hitters the DCU can throw at him. And he should be doing all of these things at once; his multitasking skills should make even Superman sit back in wonder, and that guy's brain is like a organic super computer.

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    While it has been solved but it's becoming a running joke now. It's always going to be a question. Dc doesn't want to answer it but that is the reality about it.
    I doubt the unfortunate parallels with black history was taken into account when they castrated Vic, but it is (was) absolutely an issue. But as for DC's problem with tackling the subject, in their defense that is a pretty heavy, adult topic to breach and these books are supposed to be all-ages appropriate.

    Of course, the rooftop sex scene with Bruce and Selina sorta destroys my point here....but do we really want DC trying to smooth that problem out? Seems to me they'd just make it worse. I say let's just move on, let Vic have relations, and call it a day. Best way to make sure no one forgets it is to keep making it an issue. DC fixed their mistake and for Vic's sake I am more than willing to forgive and move forward.
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  2. #32
    Not a member BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I doubt the unfortunate parallels with black history was taken into account when they castrated Vic, but it is (was) absolutely an issue. But as for DC's problem with tackling the subject, in their defense that is a pretty heavy, adult topic to breach and these books are supposed to be all-ages appropriate.
    And thatr's why it should be more than clarified, but obvious and consistent across all media. So it never comes up again, ever.
    Conner Kent flies. Connor Hawke has a bow. Get it right, people!

  3. #33
    Veteran Member upgrayedd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    can we finally put this discussion to rest?



    Johns' original concept for New 52 Cyborg was shortsighted and flawed. the guy who was just a head and some ribs. thankfully David Walker fixed some of the flaws.
    lol, I didn't read this issue, but I gather he just so happened to appear in human form, like a Terminator time traveler, at the same time this chick is in the room.... SLY borg.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    No, I said that he was made into a domesticated, castrated, depressive and monstrous person as to be made safe and non-threatening to the Justice League whiteness (same point, different setting).

    SonOfBaldwin said that about Sarah, which I agreed, though. (I don't subscribe to 100% of his points on the matter, then again I'm not as black as he is - on many levels - so there's that).
    Oh, I see. I was referring specifically to the Vic/Sarah statement.

    Having said that, even though I can admit that junkless Cyborg is problematic, I don't think that it was done on purpose to make him more
    "acceptable". I mean, what about the other black characters like Jon Stewart and Black Lightning who were in the League? What about Static who was in the Teen Titans?

  5. #35
    Not a member BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    Having said that, even though I can admit that junkless Cyborg is problematic, I don't think that it was done on purpose to make him more "acceptable".
    "On purpose" is really tricky. These things work on a subconscious level. I also doubt that that they wanted NuWally to debut as racial stereotype. yet, when the "he's black now" thing was mandated, that's exactly what hit the page. The same way, once Cyborg was promoted to the big, shinny house, he was made into a proper house-slave. Do I think Lee, Johns, Venditti or Jensen re racists? No. Yet, their portrayal of black people followed exactly the racist patterns society has set over centuries.

    Correcting these kinds of errors demands thought, when it's a non-thought, it becomes racist by default because that's simply how the world works ATM.
    Conner Kent flies. Connor Hawke has a bow. Get it right, people!

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    He's basically a humanoid Mother Box now, so really, if he were being written with the ability and utility and raw power he should have, he leaves Tony's extremis in the dust. Which is saying something considering what that armor was capable of.

    Vic should be the most dangerous, powerful person on the planet. With the arguable exceptions of Clark and Barry and Diana. Everyone else, including Hal, should be well below Vic in terms of power. The guy should be Boom Tubing across dimensions and space, having epic hack battles in cyberspace against electrical-based energy creatures, and blowing up hostile, sentient islands. He should be hounded by the mad scientists of Apokolips, be able to control everything connected to the internet, including military drones and satellites, and still have the physical prowess to go toe-to-toe with the heaviest hitters the DCU can throw at him. And he should be doing all of these things at once; his multitasking skills should make even Superman sit back in wonder, and that guy's brain is like a organic super computer.



    I doubt the unfortunate parallels with black history was taken into account when they castrated Vic, but it is (was) absolutely an issue. But as for DC's problem with tackling the subject, in their defense that is a pretty heavy, adult topic to breach and these books are supposed to be all-ages appropriate.

    Of course, the rooftop sex scene with Bruce and Selina sorta destroys my point here....but do we really want DC trying to smooth that problem out? Seems to me they'd just make it worse. I say let's just move on, let Vic have relations, and call it a day. Best way to make sure no one forgets it is to keep making it an issue. DC fixed their mistake and for Vic's sake I am more than willing to forgive and move forward.
    This is why I kind of miss his cybernetics being a creation of his fathers as opposed to New God technology. At least back then there was an excuse for him not being written as being so powerful even though he was making upgrades

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    "On purpose" is really tricky. These things work on a subconscious level. I also doubt that that they wanted NuWally to debut as racial stereotype. yet, when the "he's black now" thing was mandated, that's exactly what hit the page. The same way, once Cyborg was promoted to the big, shinny house, he was made into a proper house-slave. Do I think Lee, Johns, Venditti or Jensen re racists? No. Yet, their portrayal of black people followed exactly the racist patterns society has set over centuries.

    Correcting these kinds of errors demands thought, when it's a non-thought, it becomes racist by default because that's simply how the world works ATM.
    I would mostly agree, if Cyborg were DC's only minority hero and if I felt that being in the Justice League was a promotion.

  8. #38
    Junior Member Midnighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    Since Cyborg only has one solo title, and you're obviously interested... why aren't you reading it?
    It's not really that he's interested, so much as he's a racist troll looking to stir up trouble on the boards ,divide people and see if he can get these boards shut down like he and his ilk did with the IMDB boards.

    Weren't these boards moderated at one time? What ever happened to that?

    There's nothing wrong with a good healthy discussion about complex social topics. It's a good thing actually, but the OP wasn't really looking for that.
    Last edited by Midnighter; 02-17-2017 at 05:52 AM.

  9. #39
    Elder Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    This is why I kind of miss his cybernetics being a creation of his fathers as opposed to New God technology. At least back then there was an excuse for him not being written as being so powerful even though he was making upgrades
    It does piss me off, how Vic should have all this firepower and isn't shown using it. About the only thing the New Gods tech has done is allow him to open Boom Tubes. And that's badass as hell, but it's the tip of the iceberg for what he should be capable of now.

    I think nostalgia is getting in the way of the narrative (again). Vic was always solidly mid-tier in power, so that's how they write him now even though he should be infinitely beyond that point now.

    I dont even think its a race thing; not even subconsciously. In comics, nostalgia and tradition trump all other things.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnighter View Post
    It's not really that he's interested, so much as he's a racist troll looking to stir up trouble on the boards ,divide people and see if he can get these boards shut down like he and his ilk did with the IMDB boards.

    Weren't these boards moderated at one time? What ever happened to that?

    There's nothing wrong with a good healthy discussion about complex social topics. It's a good thing actually, but the OP wasn't really looking for that.
    Yeah I'm just a racist troll. Totally wasn't looking for a response to this narrative that I'd noticed. Just trying to piss off the peoplez. Totally.

  11. #41
    Elder Member GlennSimpson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    It does piss me off, how Vic should have all this firepower and isn't shown using it. About the only thing the New Gods tech has done is allow him to open Boom Tubes. And that's badass as hell, but it's the tip of the iceberg for what he should be capable of now.

    I think nostalgia is getting in the way of the narrative (again). Vic was always solidly mid-tier in power, so that's how they write him now even though he should be infinitely beyond that point now.

    I dont even think its a race thing; not even subconsciously. In comics, nostalgia and tradition trump all other things.
    Well, alternately he can still be viewed as a human with mechanical (albeit super-science mechanical) parts. So the fact that he is still human deep down is going to limit his abilities.
    For the love of God, people, just put "In my opinion..." at the beginning of your posts so that we can stop wasting bandwidth arguing about whether someone was trying to express a fact or not.

  12. #42
    Elder Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennSimpson View Post
    Well, alternately he can still be viewed as a human with mechanical (albeit super-science mechanical) parts. So the fact that he is still human deep down is going to limit his abilities.
    I dont follow. You mean because he has human organs he's not capable of, for example, flying through space unaided? Or he wouldn't survive getting a hole blown through his chest or something?
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  13. #43
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    The implications of Cyborg's appearance really didn't even apply to his original design.
    Or his depiction on the Smallville TV show.

    It really only became an issue in the comics as the 90's came around and the character became more transformer-like and less human.
    And there was a point where Cyborg was gold colored and could switch back and forth in there too.

    So it wasn't even a problem for that entire period.

    It was only when the aughts came around and the concept became that Vic was literally a just, head, heart and lungs that it became an issue.

    And the Nu52 instead of retconning that depiction, continued it with even a higher profile as now Cyborg was a Justice Leaguer.

    Good on Walker for finally addressing it.

  14. #44
    Not a member BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    I would mostly agree, if Cyborg were DC's only minority hero and if I felt that being in the Justice League was a promotion.
    It was "supposed" to be a promotion, and he is the "main" black hero as far as DC is concerned.

    That's a big part of what makes these things a problem.
    Conner Kent flies. Connor Hawke has a bow. Get it right, people!

  15. #45
    Elder Member GlennSimpson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I dont follow. You mean because he has human organs he's not capable of, for example, flying through space unaided? Or he wouldn't survive getting a hole blown through his chest or something?
    He still has human lungs so..no?

    I was actually talking more about things like being able to boom tube anywhere anytime or do other "miracles" that Mother Boxes can do. He doesn't have the presumably-biologically-superior brains of a New God so his ability to use the technology is limited.
    For the love of God, people, just put "In my opinion..." at the beginning of your posts so that we can stop wasting bandwidth arguing about whether someone was trying to express a fact or not.

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