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  1. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    McDuffie's Justice League tried to end that discussion and it it got ugly despite sales.

    The debate will ALWAYS be there.

    Because no matter who you choose it will be a debate as many black heroes have not had the chance to showcase what they can do nor have been in the hands of writers who actually care.

    Lets say you choose Static-the line starts to the left with complaints-especially about his power skills. Yet all the stories that can explain his powers including powering a weapon that could take out Unicron or a certain plant eater in Fantastic Four are not in trade or in overpriced trades.

    Same issue with Steel. Which is odd since the writer of the last 25+ issues of his series is doing Deathstroke.

    Same with Vixen.
    I really liked that Justice League run.

  2. #377
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    Because they want their Technical version of IRONMAN and it's not working.i's much rather collect a BLACK LIGHTNING ongoing than CYBORG I love vic but he belongs in one of the TITAN TEAMS.

  3. #378
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    Victor belongs with the Titans. Steel should be the Iron Man of the League.

  4. #379
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Shaw View Post
    Victor belongs with the Titans. Steel should be the Iron Man of the League.
    I prefer Skyrocket myself, but I like John Henry a lot, too.
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  5. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Shaw View Post
    Victor belongs with the Titans. Steel should be the Iron Man of the League.
    Just because he premiered with the Titans doesn't mean he should be confined to them.

  6. #381
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    Steel doesn't work because he's a spinoff character.

  7. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by AquaLantern View Post
    Just because he premiered with the Titans doesn't mean he should be confined to them.
    I have never understood the need to see the Titans remain Titans.

    I mean, this is where a lot of the OG sidekicks got to develop and become characters in their own right. Its where Grayson became Nightwing, Roy became a father, Donna got married, divorced, and lost a child, and so on. For a book about change and growth, the fans seem awfully determined to see it trapped in amber. Isnt that rather counter-intuitive?

    Vic is a great character with a cool powerset and a unique visual; he's an original creation and not tied to any individual franchise and there are no disputes over the rights to the character. He's got some larger media cred thanks to the cartoons (not just Titans GO but the 80's era Super Friends). He totally deserves League status. Hell, he had League status before the reboot and people didnt bitch this much!

    Being stuck in the Titans years after they should have moved on isn't helping Beast Boy or Raven, and Starfire's best showings in recent years have been when she's away from the team (REBELS, her DCYOU solo, etc). Forcing Vic to stay in his own past doesnt help his character. The guy earned League status, let him have it. Whether he was a Titan first makes very little difference to the story being told today. About the only thing it hampers is inter-character dynamics and some guest appearance options for his solo. Its not going to break the character and most people dont even notice the loss.

    And odds are Vic's Titans history will be put back in place by the end of Rebirth anyway, and he'll still be in the League.
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  8. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    I prefer Skyrocket myself, but I like John Henry a lot, too.
    Funny enough, my problem with the league in general is the fixed line-up. A little rotation every few arcs would do a world of good, imo. Lesser known characters could benefit fighting alongside the icons.

    Creative teams should bring back the roll call aspect.

  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by AquaLantern View Post
    Just because he premiered with the Titans doesn't mean he should be confined to them.
    If it makes you feel better:

    When Victor, Kori, Dick, and Donna joined the League pre-Flashpoint, my POV was two thumbs up. It felt like natural progression. The way Victor was conceived as a founder was poorly handled, imo.

  10. #385

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Shaw View Post
    Funny enough, my problem with the league in general is the fixed line-up. A little rotation every few arcs would do a world of good, imo. Lesser known characters could benefit fighting alongside the icons.

    Creative teams should bring back the roll call aspect.
    Kind of a "Justice League Unlimited" approach. I'd be down for that.

    I actually don't have a problem with Cyborg as a member of the Justice League. I do have a problem with him being a founding member of the Justice League, which actually prevents him from being with the Titans. Wally West was in the JLA when he was the main Flash, but he'd grown into that position. Also, with Wally, serving on the League didn't prevent him from also being on the Titans at the same time. So, the biggest problem with Cyborg on the JL for me isn't so much that he's with the JL, but that he isn't with the Titans.

  11. #386
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    I thought it was mostly because Geoff Johns liked him. He did TT and he had pretty much already replaced Martian Manhunter with Cyborg in Flashpoint. Needing a PoC tech guy was probably also a factor but I think it's quite clear that the writer of TT, Flashpoint and a new JL origin had some say in which PoC tech guy to use.

    I just wish they didn't make him a founding member. If they had MM as a founding member then 5 years later Cyborg had recently joined after his time with TT it would have worked better. In fact they could have made the present lineup a lot more diverse than it was if they had allowed the JL to add more members and make the present team different to the founding members. But this is just me getting back to the old argument of what DC could have done better with the n52 status quo...

  12. #387
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Shaw View Post
    Funny enough, my problem with the league in general is the fixed line-up. A little rotation every few arcs would do a world of good, imo. Lesser known characters could benefit fighting alongside the icons.

    Creative teams should bring back the roll call aspect.
    I grew up with that approach during the Bronze Age, Anthony. Thought it was great, too.
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  13. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai "the spy" View Post
    Kind of a "Justice League Unlimited" approach. I'd be down for that.

    I actually don't have a problem with Cyborg as a member of the Justice League. I do have a problem with him being a founding member of the Justice League, which actually prevents him from being with the Titans. Wally West was in the JLA when he was the main Flash, but he'd grown into that position. Also, with Wally, serving on the League didn't prevent him from also being on the Titans at the same time. So, the biggest problem with Cyborg on the JL for me isn't so much that he's with the JL, but that he isn't with the Titans.
    Quote Originally Posted by SlimeStack View Post
    I thought it was mostly because Geoff Johns liked him. He did TT and he had pretty much already replaced Martian Manhunter with Cyborg in Flashpoint. Needing a PoC tech guy was probably also a factor but I think it's quite clear that the writer of TT, Flashpoint and a new JL origin had some say in which PoC tech guy to use.

    I just wish they didn't make him a founding member. If they had MM as a founding member then 5 years later Cyborg had recently joined after his time with TT it would have worked better. In fact they could have made the present lineup a lot more diverse than it was if they had allowed the JL to add more members and make the present team different to the founding members. But this is just me getting back to the old argument of what DC could have done better with the n52 status quo...
    I think MM should have stayed as a founding member. I forgot to mention Wally being the first Titan joining the League.

    Ultimately, I believe the delivery of Cyborg in the League was poorly executed.

    At first, I was hesitant about the rotating membership with JLA, but in the end, I loved it!

    It was great seeing heroes I never heard of, and other heroes I barely knew shining in animation.

  14. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    I grew up with that approach during the Bronze Age, Anthony. Thought it was great, too.
    That's how we got the Hawkman/Green Arrow rivalry. I think it's crazy that so many silver age members have yet to show up in recent years.

    I think the Trinity War & Throne of Atlantis were the few times I saw silver age non-Big Seven members in the League.

    With the roll call aspect, you can throw him POC (along with other under-utilized heroes) in various story lines without even making a big deal out of it.

    You don't even have to worry about any actual or perceived tokenism with the roll call method.

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