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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Trail View Post
    There's a clear difference between choosing not to publish something on a private website and encouraging physical violence against people with whom you disagree.
    I've said it before and I'll say it again: people can disagree about comics or movies or coffee flavors. That's a matter of opinion. But once one side starts writing about/advocating for/cheering on the extermination and genocide of an entire minority, it's not a simple difference of opinion anymore. Bannon did it repeatedly. Spencer did academic-level research to justify white supremacy. The side that's being targeted has every right to defend itself. Calling out the other side is therefore self defense. "Listening to the other side" becomes pointless because then it's a validation of genocide.
    Last edited by Cyke; 06-06-2017 at 03:21 PM.
    "Until the lion learns to write, every story will glorify the hunter."
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  2. #17
    Incredible Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Trail View Post
    You don't have to like the President. You don't have to like what a president does. But you don't encourage people to physically assault him or his staff and call them Nazis.

    And once you decide it's okay to punch people whose views you find personally abhorrent or evil it can quickly become an excuse to punch anybody.

    On another note, where can I go to support Dan Hogan's work because apparently he's the only person left here that understands free speech?
    Oh come on, not a single one of those artists was encouraging people to go out and punch the President, his staff or supporters. It was political satire, and if you seriously can't see a more nuanced message than," This artist drew Squirrel Girl punching the President, so he endorses violence against him!" then I've lost a lot of respect for the people who educated you.

    The whole point of that piece was to recreate a famous comic cover using fan suggested heroes, and the cover in question was Cap punching out Hitler from Captain America #1 which itself was a piece of political art and the message wasn't "Go punch Nazis!" it was "stand up to fascism" and that's the parallel that the artists presented on The Line is Drawn were creating.

  3. #18
    Spectacular Member Mark Trail's Avatar
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    Welp, it's starting. A Bernie Sanders campaign volunteer started shooting republican members of congress.

    A little surprised it took this long.

    You can't run around saying violence is justified against people with whom you disagree politically, especially coupled with calling them "Nazis," and then get surprised when someone decides its okay to start shooting the "Nazis." And, to make matters worse, when it comes to Trump, rather than the random facebooker or redneck in a local parade doing it, you have all sorts of celebrities (and comic book artists) who have been joking and fantasizing about violent acts toward Republicans for at least the last six months.

    The chickens are coming home to roost. Congratulations guys.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member dancj's Avatar
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    But no-one was saying "violence is justified against people with whom you disagree politically" - as has been pointed out already.

  5. #20
    Spectacular Member Mark Trail's Avatar
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    NYT editorial after Giffords shooting: It's legitimate to hold GOP responsible for rhetoric that incited threats.

    So was the NY Times wrong in 2011 or is the CBR "republicans are Nazis...punch a Nazi" crowd wrong now?

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member dancj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Trail View Post
    NYT editorial after Giffords shooting: It's legitimate to hold GOP responsible for rhetoric that incited threats.

    So was the NY Times wrong in 2011 or is the CBR "republicans are Nazis...punch a Nazi" crowd wrong now?
    Are you deliberately talking crap?

    The "It's okay to punch a Nazi" crowd were always wrong. The "republicans are Nazis" crown are wrong if they really believe it, but I suspect people mostly say that when using satire or exaggerating for dramatic effect.

    The main point though (which you seem to continually ignore) is that the CBR "The line is drawn" did not at any point condone punching republicans - or anyone.

  7. #22
    Spectacular Member Mark Trail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancj View Post

    The main point though (which you seem to continually ignore) is that the CBR "The line is drawn" did not at any point condone punching republicans - or anyone.

    Of course it did. You had certain artists in the feature literally depicting republicans as Nazis getting punched by comic book characters and the editor of the feature saying good job.
    Last edited by Mark Trail; 06-16-2017 at 08:31 AM.

  8. #23
    Incredible Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Trail View Post
    Of course it did. You had certain artists in the feature literally depicting republicans as Nazis getting punched by comic book characters and the editor of the feature saying good job.
    As I said, it was satire and the message wasn't "it's okay to punch people who are different than you!" it was "Stand up to fascism." and in the case of the parody images from the Line is Drawn, the image was a tongue and cheek way of saying"The President is a Fascist!" as it used the imagery of the original, well known message and substituted the President for Hitler and you have to take a very sophomoric, cursory look at the pieces to read anything other than that.

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member dancj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Trail View Post
    Of course it did. You had certain artists in the feature literally depicting republicans as Nazis getting punched by comic book characters and the editor of the feature saying good job.
    1 - As far as I can tell, the editor put the pictures without comment - not "saying good job".

    2 - If he actually did and I missed it, it's a safe bet he'd have been talking about the picture, not the punch.

    3 - The vast majority of the pictures have actual nazis being punched, not republicans.

    4 - (and this is the biggy) Depicting something in a picture does not equal condoning it.

  10. #25
    Mighty Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    As I said, it was satire and the message wasn't "it's okay to punch people who are different than you!" it was "Stand up to fascism." and in the case of the parody images from the Line is Drawn, the image was a tongue and cheek way of saying"The President is a Fascist!" as it used the imagery of the original, well known message and substituted the President for Hitler and you have to take a very sophomoric, cursory look at the pieces to read anything other than that.
    I agree.

    But I'm sort of amazed that anybody thinks that Trump..admittedly with a powerful array of faults...can be fairly compared to a fascist.

    I certainly find it interesting that Marvel allow one of their characters to be depicted punching out the President. I suspect it shows Marvel believe that committed Marvel readers are predominantly democrats.

    I don't think for a second they would have countenanced the same treatment for Obama.

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