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  1. #211
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    It's definitely the worst of the netflix shows-dialogue is horrible,fight scenes bad with a main actor who never pulls off the role. The story is disjointed with bad plot points and erratic characterizations. There are some lol moments but it's 90% trash. Hopefully this Iron Fist won't figure prominently in the Defenders.

  2. #212
    Lv 67 Pinsir's Avatar
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    It's okay. For its own good its too much like Arrow (and Batman Begins and probably Dr. Strange) and the corporate focus is odd, it feels thematically inconsistent with the story the character would work well in.
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  3. #213
    Veteran Member FishyZombie's Avatar
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    I think this is evidence of the importance of casting good charismatic leads in comic book adaptations. Where would marvel be without the likes of RDJ, Chris Evans, Mike Colter, Clark Gregg, Benedict Cumberbatch, Chris Pratt, Jon Bernthal,Paul Rudd or Charlie Cox? Character needs to be well written of course, and they usually do that well. But you need an actor who really sells themselves as that character. And while I don't think Finn Jones does a terrible job, he's not good enough in the role to carry the show or make Danny a character we want to follow and be invested in. IMO.
    Last edited by FishyZombie; 03-20-2017 at 12:45 AM.
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  4. #214
    Elder Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffHanger2 View Post
    Hopefully this Iron Fist won't figure prominently in the Defenders.
    From what I've heard and seen, you might not want to get your hopes up on that front.

  5. #215
    Veteran Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishyZombie View Post
    I think this is evidence of the importance of casting good charismatic leads in comic book adaptations. Where would marvel be without the likes of RDJ, Chris Evans, Mike Colter, Clark Gregg, Benedict Cumberbatch, Chris Pratt, Jon Bernthal,Paul Rudd or Charlie Cox? Character needs to be well written of course, and they usually do that well. But you need an actor who really sells themselves as that character. And while I don't think Finn Jones does a terrible job, he's not good enough in the role to carry the show or make Danny a character we want to follow and be invested in. IMO.
    I know you quaify this with IMO but at least have an open mind that some of us think this is perfect casting. The character is supposed to be like this, even if you don't like him being so. This is a considered choice of the show. If you study Finn's performance, which I admit is easier if you are enjoying it, you will see plenty of nuance showing his internal conflicts and his outlooks, wants, needs, etc. Not only that but the performance avoids the obvious cliches. He is being asked to play a person less experienced and less emotionally developed than his age would suggest, but they don't do the wide eyed man-child thing, they don't do the 'wise in other ways' thing, they don't do the 'redeeming hidden depths' thing. He plays it straight down the line, with all the problematic issues that presents.

    His performance is not flawed, his character is flawed. His character is not supposed to be charismatic, he is supposed to be damaged, introverted, suppressed, and in the midst of an identity crisis. These issues unfold slowly such that you question his actions and motives and then come to understand them. Then as you learn more you start to question his motives. That's a challenging role.

    This can be an issue in comic book adaptations because many comic book characters are not really portrayed as flawed, they lack dramatic tensions. But to cross over into mainstream entertainment a character needs these internal issues. They need to contain contradictions that need resolution to keep the audience interested in their story.

    The show didn't make up these issues, they just examine them with more care and with greater insight than the character is usually granted. The Netflix shows are grounded, they need to ask 'how would this work in a recognisable New York?' they need to think 'what would somebody be really like if they had suffered unresolved tragedy and then forced to stay in an alien culture and take up their values?' Was he really the best choice for Iron Fist is a question that needs resolution, we can be sure that as the story develops the answer will be yes, but we are going the long way around and really challenging this idea, as well as the idea of the idealised warrior monk culture and all that entails.

    Also, he isn't the only lead. Tom Pelphrey is required to carry his half of the plot, Ward is a joint lead character. And his performance is phenomenal.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 03-20-2017 at 03:38 AM.

  6. #216
    Epic Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    RT

    Critics: 16%, 4.2/10

    Audience: 86%, 8.6/10


    Professional critics got blinded by social justice and dropped the ball big time here.


    And this doesn't always happen. You can go look at critic vs audience numbers for BvS and SS nad they are not this wide apart.


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  7. #217

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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    RT

    Critics: 16%, 4.2/10

    Audience: 86%, 8.6/10


    Professional critics got blinded by social justice and dropped the ball big time here.


    And this doesn't always happen. You can go look at critic vs audience numbers for BvS and SS nad they are not this wide apart.


    Swiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing and a miss.
    Again with the social justice blaming?

    Look, you liked it. That's fine. I'm happy for you. But that doesn't make it a good show. This thread is already filled with a number of posts giving fair and rational criticism about the show. Is everyone here who disliked it wrong? Did they only dislike it because Danny is white?

  8. #218
    Shou-Lao The Bitch Dragon Iron Fist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    RT

    Critics: 16%, 4.2/10

    Audience: 86%, 8.6/10


    Professional critics got blinded by social justice and dropped the ball big time here.


    And this doesn't always happen. You can go look at critic vs audience numbers for BvS and SS nad they are not this wide apart.


    Swiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing and a miss.
    Shouldn't it be at 51% then since that's he average? =/

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    Again with the social justice blaming?

    Look, you liked it. That's fine. I'm happy for you. But that doesn't make it a good show. This thread is already filled with a number of posts giving fair and rational criticism about the show. Is everyone here who disliked it wrong? Did they only dislike it because Danny is white?
    Considering SJW created an environment around the show of such negativity, this reviews feel influenced by that rather than anything the show actually did.

    Even people who aren't super into the show have agreed it's nowhere near deserving of the hatred the critics had for it.

    The only difference between the pre-reception to this and Luke Cage is the SJW presence, who've been trying to tank this show since the beginning.

    So I'm not sure why you think blaming them is unfair or inaccurate?
    Last edited by Iron Fist; 03-20-2017 at 05:02 AM.

  9. #219
    Epic Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    Again with the social justice blaming?

    Look, you liked it. That's fine. I'm happy for you. But that doesn't make it a good show. This thread is already filled with a number of posts giving fair and rational criticism about the show. Is everyone here who disliked it wrong? Did they only dislike it because Danny is white?
    Something blinded them enough that there was a huge disconnect between the "general audience" and "pro critics" nearly 4300 users rated it and 86% liked it. The "white controversy" was a consistent narrative in the reviews. Not all. I am not dealing in absolutes. And I am only dealing with RT.

    And while there are a fair number of complaints on this board... they are more drowned out by the people saying "I don't get the critic hate for this?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Fist View Post
    Shouldn't it be at 51% then since that's he average? =/
    They are two separate things.

    The "official" tomanometer is critics only. Audience score is a separate thing
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  10. #220
    Shou-Lao The Bitch Dragon Iron Fist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    They are two separate things.

    The "official" tomanometer is critics only. Audience score is a separate thing
    That's a shame.

  11. #221

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    I've watched the first couple of episodes. I've loved them so far. They're perfectly in line with the style and heart that Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage have established. I honestly don't see why some are whining about this series. It does a lot of what others have done. It takes its time, working slowly to build the narrative and establish the characters. By and large, I think it has done a great job. Finn Jones really does well in his role. I'm not done with the series yet, but based on everything I've seen, it's nowhere near as bad as what some critics are saying.

  12. #222
    Lv 67 Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    RT

    Critics: 16%, 4.2/10

    Audience: 86%, 8.6/10


    Professional critics got blinded by social justice and dropped the ball big time here.


    And this doesn't always happen. You can go look at critic vs audience numbers for BvS and SS nad they are not this wide apart.


    Swiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing and a miss.
    Knowing how fandoms work it wouldn't surprise me if most of those fan reviews came in before Iron Fist aired.
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  13. #223
    Veteran Member SpiderClops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Knowing how fandoms work it wouldn't surprise me if most of those fan reviews came in before Iron Fist aired.
    Are you telling me fandom of a Netflix Marvel show of a character whom the general audience have never even heard of is bigger than the fandom for the movie that brings Batman and Superman together on the silver screen for the first time? I don't think so.
    “Indifference and neglect often do much more damage than outright dislike.”
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  14. #224
    Epic Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Knowing how fandoms work it wouldn't surprise me if most of those fan reviews came in before Iron Fist aired.
    You actually can't do that. Before a movie or show comes out, the box is "want to see" or something of the sort.

    like this: https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/gua..._galaxy_vol_2/


    Plus I mean... does Batman and Superman not have a dedicated fan base? It was in the 60% for audience. Ditto for SS.
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  15. #225
    Veteran Member Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    Again with the social justice blaming?

    Look, you liked it. That's fine. I'm happy for you. But that doesn't make it a good show. This thread is already filled with a number of posts giving fair and rational criticism about the show. Is everyone here who disliked it wrong? Did they only dislike it because Danny is white?
    Right? I think it's a boring show that really didn't live up to all the potential it had and that has zero to do with Danny being white.
    It's a bad show. This SJW thing from those that liked it just feels like they want to find an easy excuse for why they disagree with critics.
    I can't see a critic watching shows like Legion, Fargo, The Americans or Mr Robot and then watching Iron Fist and thinking this is even close to good. It's simple as that. Audiences are generally more forgiving.

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