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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Default Rebirth JSA: how to bring back the kids?

    According to DCU Rebirth #1, the Justice Society was a covert team of heroes who helped bring about the end of WWII and then were accidently banished from reality by Johnny Thunder during the subsequent McCarthy hearings. Presumably, they disappeared in 1951 (though it could have been as late as 1956). When the JSA returns later this year, I suspect that they'll be in their mid-30s, roughly a decade older than the League (or maybe only five years older, if the New 52's five-year gap has expanded to ten years).

    The catch is that any children they may have had would have been at most ten years old at the time of their disappearance. If they were left in the past, they're be approaching retirement age today; and if they're brought to the present with their parents, they'd still be children.

    So how to bring them back?
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  2. #2
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    I don't know if they will be in their mid-thirties. I mean, I'd assume DC would want to further themselves from the New 52 Earth 2 book as much as possible, where they were young. So wouldn't it make more sense to bring them back the way they were before the New 52, as in older?

    Also, what if Johnny Thunder didn't make them disappear but simply made them forget about their years as heroes? It would explain why Johnny is still running around in a nursing home and isn't in another dimension himself. Jay and Alan were still kicking butt at age 80 and nobody had a problem with it before the New 52.

    Or maybe bring back Jay the same way they brought back Wally, with his memories from before the New 52 intact.
    Last edited by Zeeguy91; 03-08-2017 at 11:12 PM.
    Favorite Mythologies: Green Lantern, Batman (pre-Flashpoint), Spider-Man, The Fantastic Four, the Justice League/JLA (pre-Flashpoint)

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  3. #3
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    Some of the kids, Sandy Hawkins, Jesse Chambers, Rick Tyler, Obsidian, and Jade, might take some finagling to fit into the new timeline. Not sure how/if they'll be coming back. However, those are the older kids. Stargirl made in into the New52, and she'll almost definitely be in the JSA book. The rest of the JSA teens, Cyclone, Wildcat II, Damage, Atom Smasher, Judomaster, and Jakeem Thunder, I can come up, pretty easy explanations for their returns, with potentially some changes made to their origins.

    Maxine could still be the granddaughter of the original Red Tornado, with the explanation that she had a kid before she disappeared.
    Wildcat II is tricky, but I think the easiest explanation would just be to make him Ted's grandson instead of his son.
    Damage, again, just make him a grandson instead of a son, but he has to keep the abusive childhood.
    Atom Smasher I think could be brought back without his old origin at all.
    Judomaster's origin can be left untouched.
    Jakeem isn't related to anyone, he's just a legacy. Have Johnny Thunder die and let the thunderbolt pass to him.

    There are some people I left out, but I have reasons for them. Ex. I didn't talk about King Chimera because who gives a f**k about King Chimera, and I didn't talk about Jack Knight because the guy is pretty much the only comic book character to get a real happy ending, and I don't want to see that taken away.

  4. #4
    Mighty Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    I'm hoping they come back about 20 years ago. Thunderbolt can do anything, so why not? They spent the last 2 decades in retirement, had kids, aged up a bit. When they unretire, they'll be in their 50's. Old enough to be the senior statesmen... but young enough to still be heroes.

  5. #5
    Not a member BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    According to DCU Rebirth #1, the Justice Society was a covert team of heroes who helped bring about the end of WWII and then were accidently banished from reality by Johnny Thunder during the subsequent McCarthy hearings. Presumably, they disappeared in 1951 (though it could have been as late as 1956). When the JSA returns later this year, I suspect that they'll be in their mid-30s, roughly a decade older than the League (or maybe only five years older, if the New 52's five-year gap has expanded to ten years).

    The catch is that any children they may have had would have been at most ten years old at the time of their disappearance. If they were left in the past, they're be approaching retirement age today; and if they're brought to the present with their parents, they'd still be children.

    So how to bring them back?
    I don't think they will be in their mid thirties, more to mid forties to early fifties (say, WW2 ended in 45 when they were about 30, they vanished in 56 at about 45. Done deal).

    If the kids were born during or right before the war period, say, 36, they'd be 20 in 56. Problem solved.

    This one is one of the smoother ones, really.
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  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    Some of the kids, Sandy Hawkins, Jesse Chambers, Rick Tyler, Obsidian, and Jade, might take some finagling to fit into the new timeline. Not sure how/if they'll be coming back. However, those are the older kids. Stargirl made in into the New52, and she'll almost definitely be in the JSA book. The rest of the JSA teens, Cyclone, Wildcat II, Damage, Atom Smasher, Judomaster, and Jakeem Thunder, I can come up, pretty easy explanations for their returns, with potentially some changes made to their origins.

    Maxine could still be the granddaughter of the original Red Tornado, with the explanation that she had a kid before she disappeared.
    Wildcat II is tricky, but I think the easiest explanation would just be to make him Ted's grandson instead of his son.
    Damage, again, just make him a grandson instead of a son, but he has to keep the abusive childhood.
    Atom Smasher I think could be brought back without his old origin at all.
    Judomaster's origin can be left untouched.
    Jakeem isn't related to anyone, he's just a legacy. Have Johnny Thunder die and let the thunderbolt pass to him.

    There are some people I left out, but I have reasons for them. Ex. I didn't talk about King Chimera because who gives a f**k about King Chimera, and I didn't talk about Jack Knight because the guy is pretty much the only comic book character to get a real happy ending, and I don't want to see that taken away.
    I suspect that Jakeem is going to be retconned as Johnny's great grandson. Judomaster isn't a problem because she's not even a JSA legacy: he forbear was a Charleston character.
    Last edited by Dataweaver; 03-09-2017 at 12:20 AM.
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  7. #7
    Mighty Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    I don't think they will be in their mid thirties, more to mid forties to early fifties (say, WW2 ended in 45 when they were about 30, they vanished in 56 at about 45. Done deal).

    If the kids were born during or right before the war period, say, 36, they'd be 20 in 56. Problem solved.

    This one is one of the smoother ones, really.
    This is really the best solution, Have the JSA *AND* the All-star squadron banished… The downside is that I could see way too much focus on the young-uns trying to fit into the world and not the core team. Which is a downside of time jumps.

    One thing I havent’ seen mentioned… is where were they banished TO? What if this is just antoher way of reestablishing Earth 2? JSA were sent from main earth to another earth and have been living happily with family.

  8. #8
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    Wouldn't people being brought from the past into the present be a carbon copy of All-New X-Men?

  9. #9
    Mighty Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Wouldn't people being brought from the past into the present be a carbon copy of All-New X-Men?

    Pretty much, however the big difference there is that since they were yanked out of time in the first place, there wouldn’t be two of them staring face to face. There wouldn’t be the insane time consequences that All-New has had to deal with. It would be more like Captain America sleeping a few decades away.

    It’s just a rip van winkle thing… and frankly been done with JSA before. There has to be SOME reason for them not to be 80… gahhh, 90+ now. Limbo, time travel, slower earth… something.

    I really didn’t like the hoops they were running thorugh in that last series. Green Flame, Reincarnate, 9 lives, Speed force… everyone had a different excuse that were all exclusive to each other.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    Atom Smasher I think could be brought back without his old origin at all.
    He was only the godson the Atom, that shouldn't such a big problem.

    It will be interesting what they do with Fury and Silver Scarab, or how they in general solve the problem with Hawkman.

  11. #11
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    On a side note, I can't for the life of me understand why any writer would want to bring back Jonny or Jakeem Thunder, the walking deus ex machinas.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    One reason is that you need a pretty big Deus ex Machina to get a dozen or so heroes (plus key loved ones, I hope?) from the WWII era to the present without them being insanely old.
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  13. #13
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    So... about Stargirl...

    I personally think that when Manhattan (or whoever) reshaped reality, there's still the likelihood that both the JSA and Infinity, Inc. were dealt with separately.
    Especially since it was a change that occurred not in one specific time, but through all eras.

    The Infinitors could've been deposited into the new timeline first, and then the JSA, meaning they could have been simply placed on the Earth in 2011 without their memories.

    Or, if Mr. Oz (or someone) felt that their existence would lead to people digging into where they came from they could just be held in a cell somewhere.
    Currently reading: Doctor Strange (1963), Forever People (1971), Mister Miracle (1971), New Gods (1971), Thor (1971), Defenders (1972), Camelot 3000, Dreadstar, Omega Men (1983)

  14. #14
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    This is one way I would solve the JSA problem.

    Johnny Thunder's Thunderbolt detected that there was some tampering being done to the timestream which threatened the JSA. So he removed the JSA and their loved ones from the timeline in 1951 and erased all knowledge of their existence (or maybe Manhattan's tampering did that), and put them in a pocket universe/dimension/whatever. The JSA may or may not have been aware of this. Johnny Thunder himself remained on Earth 0, with little to no knowledge of what happened, but a magically created doppelganger of him was also banished to this other dimension with the JSA to watch over them. Time worked differently in this dimension, and passed at a slower rate. So, from the JSA's POV, only about a decade passed before Barry Allen managed to break into their dimension and teamed up with Jay Garrick. Basically, all the old Earth 1/Earth 2 team-ups happened, with the JLA believing that the JSA were on a parallel earth called 'Earth 2' - without suspecting that they were in fact from the same earth. But then, at some point, maybe because of Manhattan's tampering or because the Thunderbolt needed to 'boost' the security of the JSAer's, all memories of the 'Earth 2' heroes were wiped from the Earth 0 heroes minds and access to the pocket dimension was cut off.

    Now, when the JSA returns to Earth 0 proper, from their POV, about 25-30 years will have passed and it'll be the 1970's or early 1980's in their dimension. They've had kids, who are themselves heroes, while also being relatively vital themselves (pushing 60 at most, rather than 100).

    The problem of course is the legacy characters from Geoff Johns' run. I have a feeling all that will be rebooted, much like, say, the Teen Titans were.

  15. #15
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    This is one way I would solve the JSA problem.

    Johnny Thunder's Thunderbolt detected that there was some tampering being done to the timestream which threatened the JSA. So he removed the JSA and their loved ones from the timeline in 1951 and erased all knowledge of their existence (or maybe Manhattan's tampering did that), and put them in a pocket universe/dimension/whatever. The JSA may or may not have been aware of this. Johnny Thunder himself remained on Earth 0, with little to no knowledge of what happened, but a magically created doppelganger of him was also banished to this other dimension with the JSA to watch over them. Time worked differently in this dimension, and passed at a slower rate. So, from the JSA's POV, only about a decade passed before Barry Allen managed to break into their dimension and teamed up with Jay Garrick. Basically, all the old Earth 1/Earth 2 team-ups happened, with the JLA believing that the JSA were on a parallel earth called 'Earth 2' - without suspecting that they were in fact from the same earth. But then, at some point, maybe because of Manhattan's tampering or because the Thunderbolt needed to 'boost' the security of the JSAer's, all memories of the 'Earth 2' heroes were wiped from the Earth 0 heroes minds and access to the pocket dimension was cut off.

    Now, when the JSA returns to Earth 0 proper, from their POV, about 25-30 years will have passed and it'll be the 1970's or early 1980's in their dimension. They've had kids, who are themselves heroes, while also being relatively vital themselves (pushing 60 at most, rather than 100).

    The problem of course is the legacy characters from Geoff Johns' run. I have a feeling all that will be rebooted, much like, say, the Teen Titans were.
    No kids, no buy.

    I like Jay, Alan, and Ted a lot, but it's the legacy characters that I really care about. If they aren't in it, I'm not reading the book.

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