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  1. #61
    Astonishing Member dietrich's Avatar
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    I am sure there are some racists who dislike Duke based entirely on his skin colour but it's unfair to blanket all who dislike or have criticisms as racists.

    There are valid points being made most of which were made about Harper so it's not a race thing in majority of the cases.

  2. #62
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    I am sure there are some racists who dislike Duke based entirely on his skin colour but it's unfair to blanket all who dislike or have criticisms as racists.

    There are valid points being made most of which were made about Harper so it's not a race thing in majority of the cases.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^

    I admit that while I do like Harper more than Duke, it's for reasons I can't quite explain,( OK its her hair. I love it), and it certainly has nothing to do with Duke being black. Yes, I was someone who hated black Wally when he showed up, but that's because his character was completely wrong. Now in Rebirth, KF is likable, and I'm all FOR their being two Wallys.

    Duke and Harper are both boring characters IMO, and I'd personally like their stories wrapped up in the remaining Year and change of Rebirth left, and then be done away with.

  3. #63
    Blind Bastard Orujo-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    "Destroy'? I read the first RHatO storyline, and I find it hard to believe it could have gotten any worse than THAT trash.

    Also, don't know for sure, but I'd wager given his appearances in other books that Tim's "death" was ordered by editorial.
    Oh, you took a little revenge, doesn't matter. But yeah, Tynion's run in RHATO is worse than that.

  4. #64
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orujo-man View Post
    Oh, you took a little revenge, doesn't matter. But yeah, Tynion's run in RHATO is worst than that.
    Wow. What did he do? Have Jason, Roy, and Kory have a three way? (PLEASE DON'T BE TRUE, PLEASE DON'T BE TRUE, PLEASE DON'T BE TRUE...)

    Also, what revenge?

  5. #65
    Ultimate Member Atlanta96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    I am sure there are some racists who dislike Duke based entirely on his skin colour but it's unfair to blanket all who dislike or have criticisms as racists.

    There are valid points being made most of which were made about Harper so it's not a race thing in majority of the cases.
    It's funny, I've been openly critical of very popular characters like Supergirl, Barry Allen, and Hank Pym in the past. Sometimes harshly critical. But it's only when I go after Duke, a nobody, that I get hit with patronizing and accusational responses. That's telling.

    Not directed at you, Dietrich. You've been respectful.
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  6. #66
    Blind Bastard Orujo-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    Wow. What did he do? Have Jason, Roy, and Kory have a three way? (PLEASE DON'T BE TRUE, PLEASE DON'T BE TRUE, PLEASE DON'T BE TRUE...)

    Also, what revenge?
    Yep, same as Jason beat Cass.

  7. #67
    CBR got me like.. Maxpower00044's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlanta96 View Post
    Not an unrealistic response. Which Wally West is being featured in more books right now? Hint: It's not the ginger.



    Explain the Harper hate then. Last time I checked she was whiter than a snowstorm.

    When someone accuses Duke haters of being racist it just cracks me up. It's such a baseless, petty attack. And it reassures me that his defenders really do lack good arguments to defend him with.
    Most people claim they don't like Harper because of her hair color and other petty nonsense like her piercings etc. It's not as bad as the racial slant that a lot of posters (sometimes even against their better judgement) are making. It's definitely because she doesn't look "normal" for some.
    Even in this thread Duke was a) suggested to work in the ghetto. Cause, ya know... and b) right away compared to other black characters. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not gonna start finding comments for you, because frankly, arguing with you is really a waste of time.


    Except for all the people who do have good reason for defending him that you just write off and say "That's not a character trait."
    Last edited by Maxpower00044; 03-17-2017 at 12:55 PM.
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  8. #68
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orujo-man View Post
    Yep, same as Jason beat Cass.
    Yeah, I'm still not sure what point you're trying to make. What did Tynion do that was so bad? What revenge? What does Jason "beating" Cass have to do with anything? Please explain.

  9. #69
    Blind Bastard Orujo-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlanta96 View Post
    It's funny, I've been openly critical of very popular characters like Supergirl, Barry Allen, and Hank Pym in the past. Sometimes harshly critical. But it's only when I go after Duke, a nobody, that I get hit with patronizing and accusational responses. That's telling.

    Not directed at you, Dietrich. You've been respectful.
    Well, mods already banned you for going after Duke, so I think you passed out of the levels.

  10. #70
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    False. Cass, Tim, and to a lesser extent Steph have all had highly successful solo books, and the only reason they're "ideas from the past" is because DiDio hates them and didn't want them in the New52 in the girls case, and Tim was ruined by the New52 in his case.
    Tim, and to a lesser extent Cass, had successful solo run while they were beneficiaries of well known legacies. Steph series, while superbly written, wasn't actually that successful. You can blame Didio all you want, but regardless these days those characters are not in any better of a position then Duke. They brought back Cass so they could tell us a year later how Shiva is her mother. Awesome. She still serves no actual purpose, and her role of Orphan has no more a position in the Batfamily then Duke does. Same thing with Steph. Maybe even worse because they can't even seem to remember why she was appealing in the first place. And Tims downfall began long before the New 52. They're just as guilty of cluttering up the Family as Duke and Harper.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 03-17-2017 at 01:00 PM.

  11. #71
    Blind Bastard Orujo-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    Yeah, I'm still not sure what point you're trying to make. What did Tynion do that was so bad? What revenge? What does Jason "beating" Cass have to do with anything? Please explain.
    Don't worry is a joke. Mostly Tynion run recurred to the chosen one nonsense for Jason, he beat Lady Shiva in a single blow and ends with a deus ex machina.

  12. #72
    Ultimate Member Atlanta96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxpower00044 View Post
    Most people claim they don't like Harper because of her hair color and other petty nonsense like her piercings etc. It's not as bad as the racial slant that a lot of posters (sometimes even against their better judgement) are making. It's definitely because she doesn't look "normal" for some.
    Even in this thread Duke was a) suggested to work in the ghetto. Cause, ya know... and b) right away compared to other black characters. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not gonna start finding comments for you, because frankly, arguing with you is really a waste of time.


    Except for all the people who do have good reason for defending him that you just write off and say "That's not a character trait."
    That's a strawman, the most common criticisms of Harper are that a) She hijacks stories that she shouldn't be the focus of, b) She makes other characters look incompetent and useless by comparison, and c) She's a Stephanie Brown ripoff. Sounds like you're only seeing what you want to see.
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  13. #73
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Tim, and to a lesser extent Cass, had successful solo books while they were beneficiaries of well known legacies. Steph series, while superbly written, wasn't actually that successful. You can blame Didio all you want, but regardless these days those characters are not in any better of a position then Duke. They brought back Cass so they could tell us a year later how Shiva is her mother. Awesome. She still serves no actual purpose, and her role of Orphan has no more a position in the Batfamily then Duke does. Same thing with Steph. Maybe even worse because they can't even seem to remember why she was appealing in the first place. And Tims downfall began long before the New 52.
    Addressing things one by one:

    I wouldn't say Cass to a lesser extent. 73 issues is nothing to sneeze at in the 21st century, and her book outsold the main Batman title twice.
    Yeah, Steph's book wasn't selling particularly well, but to be fair, NONE of DC's books were selling too well at that point.
    They DO have something over Duke, actually. Not only more fans, but history. Steph's been around since the early 90's, and Cass since the late 90's. Yes, there have been some times where they weren't active, but that doesn't take away from they HAVE built up.
    By your logic, no one on the 'Tec team is serving a purpose. And "Orphan" (Which I do think is a terrible name BTW) doesn't have more of a position than Duke? True, but CASS does. You don't need to be Batgirl or an ex Robin to be important. Two Words: Spoiler Alert.
    Yeah, Steph hasn't been written too well, though I DO like how she was separated from the family.
    Lastly, agreed. Tim hasn't been great since Infinite Crisis.

  14. #74
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orujo-man View Post
    Don't worry is a joke. Mostly Tynion run recurred to the chosen one nonsense for Jason, he beat Lady Shiva in a single blow and ends with a deus ex machina.

    Wow. Ok, um. Still don't think that's as bad as what Lobdell did to Kory, but yeah, that's pretty shitty.

  15. #75
    Blind Bastard Orujo-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    Wow. Ok, um. Still don't think that's as bad as what Lobdell did to Kory, but yeah, that's pretty shitty.
    And what Lobdell did bad with Kori? I don't accept some tumblr fantasy or another argument of how Kori belongs to Dick and no one else.

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