Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 61 to 73 of 73
  1. #61
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    9,905

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    Since that concept hasn't been brought up in the Movies I personally assume anyone with the recipe for Adamantium (Not Common) isn't going to make an inferior batch without a reason to. Even less chance if they are designing something to face Logan.
    As for this, the recipe that was last(as far as we know) used with success on Deathstrike somewhere in what might be the nineties? Again, I see where you're coming from. It just seems like not intending on making an inferior batch doesn't mean we aren't talking about something that we last saw done successfully around thirty years earlier by a whole other group of people who are all long since dead.

    It's not like we're talking about something like steel or brass where folks have probably been making it over and over successfully in the time between.

  2. #62
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,422

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    As for this, the recipe that was last(as far as we know) used with success on Deathstrike somewhere in what might be the nineties? Again, I see where you're coming from. It just seems like not intending on making an inferior batch doesn't mean we aren't talking about something that we last saw done successfully around thirty years earlier by a whole other group of people who are all long since dead.

    It's not like we're talking about something like steel or brass where folks have probably been making it over and over successfully in the time between.
    Do you have any actual reason to question the quality of the metal outside of thinking the Aliens win in this debate? Beyond the basic reason of "none of this speculation is near provable" why this doesn't work, here's a couple of examples of why things don't work this way when debating in Rumbles.

    A: Fictional Swordfight: Inego Montoya of The Princess Bride vs Robin Hood. There are many reasons why the fight could be decided, but not one of them would be "Which fighter's sword has the better steel?" which is unknowable.

    B: Fantasy Weapons: Logically their steel quality should be far less than modern or futuristic standards, but the undefinable Magic factor comes in and creates a vague unknowable enhancement. Can a guy like Raiden from the Metal Gear Games cut through a +5 Sword from Pathfinder/D&D (with it's enhanced Saving Throw) with a non-enhanced regular metal blade? Hard to make a guess based just on the metallurgy of the swords involved wouldn't you agree?

    Ultimately it comes back down to the fact that there's no way to actually debate your speculation on the iffyness of the metal in this case, as you just think there might potentially maybe be flaws or differences because someone else followed a recipe. Since there is no way to potentially even hint at proving anything either way, it seems rather pointless to hinge a debate on such an inconsequential technicality.

  3. #63
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    677

    Default

    Probably Alien (6/10). Laura has implanted adamantium claws, but her skeleton is NOT coated. And a xeno tends to aim for the cranium when laying into someone with its secondary mouth. Plus, the tail is capable of impalement and "fish-hooking" a person by the crotch (possibly even reaching up through the anus with pinpoint precision and scrambling the victim's innards; they dont quite show what happens to Lambert so it's probably one of the two)
    Last edited by Ragged Maw; 03-16-2017 at 02:16 AM.

  4. #64
    Astonishing Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,490

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    While that's true, she isn't exactly trained to fight something with a tail. It could go sideways quickly just based on that.
    Honestly, we can't really be sure of that, since the X-Men movies take place in a world where killer robots and mutants with tails are a thing. Granted, both are relatively rare, but she is part of a secret bioweapon/super soldier program, so it would make sense for her to have training to deal with things like that. Not to mention that she is able to jump into fracas with multiple opponents attacking with melee and ranged weapons from multiple angles and keep track of them while flipping around way more than anything the Xenomorphs have dealt with.

    And again, even if we discount the fact that non-Weapon X people have made adamantium suits and swords capable of matching Logan's, as well as superheated adamantium blades capable of cutting through his, it should be noted that the person who plated Laura's is spoilers:
    the son of the person who plated Logan's
    end of spoilers so it's not unlikely that he has access to the latter's notes considering that he knows enough to even be aware of the spoiled fact in the first place.

    And even if we also grant that the blood will actually damage adamantium significantly, she has four limbs with super sharp claws and any one of them will likely be dealing severe/fatal damage to a Xenomorph if it's getting a lot of acid, and she'd still likely have 3 more sets of claws left to continue stabbing with while her healing factor repairs the damage to her meat, while the Xenomorph would continue to bleed out from every slash or chop.

  5. #65
    Mighty Member abmccray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,003

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    My entire reason for being here was to discuss the acid with regards to its differing corrosive level against different materials. I haven't seen Logan, I don't know anything about Laura. ^_^

    Also, nice catches, Kusanagi and Len. This has been brought up before on the new board and I recall using the Hudson one that time as another point. I forgot about it this time, and it's good you brought it up Kusanagi, because it's a really, really telling example.
    I was taking spray as a direct spray (Drake/AvP2) as compared to splash damage. I agree that it's not quite as fast as metal when working on organics, obviously, but it sounded like a direct spray of blood was being downplayed - not drops or splash. Drake got a full spray and died in 2 seconds (we see the burn start for a single second and the flame go wildly as he goes down) which matches the speed in which the facehugger acid ate through the dad's arm in AVP2 when he got a full shot of it.

    Basically, it's:

    Full spray - eats through a person in seconds (Drake's 2 second death, arm falling off in AVP2).

    Glancing spray - serious damage, but not necessarily burn all of the way through (Hicks/Hudson)

    A drop or a few - a burn

    So the big issue seems to be "how much"and "how direct." And also, does Laura have common knowledge of the acid blood?

  6. #66
    Mighty Member abmccray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,003

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    Except for queens, xenos don't have impressive soaks. Their armor isn't much tougher than an equivalent size insect, and roughly the same amount of injury that would kill a large animal will kill them. Even if their blood can dissolve her adamantium, she's going to mortally wound it in the process. And as has been mentioned, organics aren't as severely affected as metal. So she's going to get in at least four devastating chops before her claws are reduced to bone. I don't see any non-queen surviving those four hits. Even if it does somehow survives that, it will be badly wounded and facing a regenerater with bone daggers on her hands and feet.
    The only thing really shown to mortally wound an alien is stabbing them fully through the head, decapitating them, and blowing them apart with automatic rifles. Handguns don't work on them too well (you have to press them against their heads and continuously shoot at the same place or stick the gun in their mouths, otherwise the bullets just bounce off), and blunt force damage doesn't work all that well on them either (smashed through walls, etc.).

    It's not super great, but it makes H2H really tough against anyone that's not very low end superhuman like the Predator since you need the strength to get past their armor with melee weapons while avoiding their speed/strength and multiple weapons at once (you have to avoid back attacks from the tail while avoiding two claws and the secondary mouth through the head).

  7. #67
    Mighty Member Shellhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,085

    Default

    Speed: The xenomorphs get shot, but seem to be difficult targets due to speed. I think that their speed is superhuman, though just short of bullet-timing. Laura is quick, but only at the high-end of normal human speed. She isn't dodging bullets or even harpoons, and getting tagged in HTH fairly often.

    Reach: Definitely the xenomorph has the reach advantage.

    Toughness: Laura is clearly tougher, due to her regeneration ability. But the only adamantium in her is the claws, so she can be killed in this fight.

    So I think that the xenomorph is going to take advantage of those speed and reach advantages to draw first blood, and could potentially kill Laura outright. The normal xeno instinct would be to incapacitate an opponent so they can serve as a host for a baby xeno, but default Rumbles bloodlust would override that. If Laura survives the initial attack by the xenomorph, she is going to injure or even kill the xenomorph, but will also be taking an acid bath from the bloodspray. If Laura fails to kill the xenomorph with her initial attack, then I think the xenomorph will have a second chance to finish her while she is distracted by the pain from the acid. If this fight played out three times, I would expect the xenomorph to win two out of three times.

  8. #68
    Astonishing Member The Chou Lives's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,379

    Default

    For the record: Drake did not die via acid. InnAliens when doingvreports of commanded Drake is listed as alive but low vitals along with other marines who fell to aliens in first ambush.


    They were made into face hugger bait.! Aliens rarely actually kill anyone unless for reproduction or random sheer savagery

  9. #69
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    9,905

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragged Maw View Post
    Probably Alien (6/10). Laura has implanted adamantium claws, but her skeleton is NOT coated. And a xeno tends to aim for the cranium when laying into someone with its secondary mouth. Plus, the tail is capable of impalement and "fish-hooking" a person by the crotch (possibly even reaching up through the anus with pinpoint precision and scrambling the victim's innards; they dont quite show what happens to Lambert so it's probably one of the two)
    In addition to the cranium, it seems like the eye sockets are also a particularly weak spot when you think about X-23's skull not being coated. A Xenomporph hitting her eye socket dead on with it's tail seems like it would be a potential kill.

  10. #70
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    976

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    Speed: The xenomorphs get shot, but seem to be difficult targets due to speed. I think that their speed is superhuman, though just short of bullet-timing. Laura is quick, but only at the high-end of normal human speed. She isn't dodging bullets or even harpoons, and getting tagged in HTH fairly often.
    I disagree with you on the speed assessment. I agree that they're basically faster than the average human being, but they don't have "superhuman speed" relative to their size.

    there are a number of reasons that might account for them being difficult targets. they tend to use ambush attacks in darkness, approach using cover and obstacles, and use their superior reach to make their kills. when they attack in the open they tend to get killed off very quickly. a good chunk of the aliens shown on film are basically people in suits or animated puppets. so.... yeah, I just don't buy the 'speed feats' as being low-end superhuman.

    nobody in the Xenomorph universe has ever been shown to be a superb marksman (by movie standards). they are usually shown in full panic mode using a 'spray and pray' method for shooting.

    based on their marksmanship feats guys like Jason Bourne, Batman, Cap, or Bullseye could probably realistic one-shot = one-kill a large number of xenomorphs if they were given a sufficiently powerful gun.

    I agree with the consensus that Laura would lose more often than not. her inferior size and strength puts her at a big disadvantage.

  11. #71
    Astonishing Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,490

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Totoro Man View Post
    I disagree with you on the speed assessment. I agree that they're basically faster than the average human being, but they don't have "superhuman speed" relative to their size.

    there are a number of reasons that might account for them being difficult targets. they tend to use ambush attacks in darkness, approach using cover and obstacles, and use their superior reach to make their kills. when they attack in the open they tend to get killed off very quickly. a good chunk of the aliens shown on film are basically people in suits or animated puppets. so.... yeah, I just don't buy the 'speed feats' as being low-end superhuman.

    nobody in the Xenomorph universe has ever been shown to be a superb marksman (by movie standards). they are usually shown in full panic mode using a 'spray and pray' method for shooting.

    based on their marksmanship feats guys like Jason Bourne, Batman, Cap, or Bullseye could probably realistic one-shot = one-kill a large number of xenomorphs if they were given a sufficiently powerful gun.

    I agree with the consensus that Laura would lose more often than not. her inferior size and strength puts her at a big disadvantage.
    I don't think that Laura's strength is really an issue, considering that she has the ability to cut through practically anything that comes within arm's or leg's reach of her, and when she went berserk she was able to go into extended melee stabbing fits with a Hugh-Jackman-sized guy that was superhumanly strong enough to lift armored cars up while pinned under it and could send another Hugh-Jackman-sized guy flying ten to twenty feet with enough force to rip an armored car's door off its hinges.

    The Xenomorph has no real range game that doesn't put parts of it within stabbin/clawing range, and she's fast more likely to have experience/training to fight things like it than it is to have relevant practice in killing something like her.
    Last edited by The Drunkard Kid; 03-18-2017 at 07:27 PM.

  12. #72
    Shou-Lao The Bitch Dragon Iron Fist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    6,333

    Default

    I rewatched Logan today and I really can't see any reason why X-23 would win this.

    At various times she's overpowered by size and strength and is easily limited in her movement by being stabbed with a spike on a chain.

    So I don't get why the Xenomorph couldn't just impale her and then rip her apart from it's brute strength? Like the below gif



    X-23's only defence is her speed.

  13. #73
    Mighty Member abmccray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,003

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Totoro Man View Post
    I disagree with you on the speed assessment. I agree that they're basically faster than the average human being, but they don't have "superhuman speed" relative to their size.

    there are a number of reasons that might account for them being difficult targets. they tend to use ambush attacks in darkness, approach using cover and obstacles, and use their superior reach to make their kills. when they attack in the open they tend to get killed off very quickly. a good chunk of the aliens shown on film are basically people in suits or animated puppets. so.... yeah, I just don't buy the 'speed feats' as being low-end superhuman.

    nobody in the Xenomorph universe has ever been shown to be a superb marksman (by movie standards). they are usually shown in full panic mode using a 'spray and pray' method for shooting.

    based on their marksmanship feats guys like Jason Bourne, Batman, Cap, or Bullseye could probably realistic one-shot = one-kill a large number of xenomorphs if they were given a sufficiently powerful gun.

    I agree with the consensus that Laura would lose more often than not. her inferior size and strength puts her at a big disadvantage.
    The better aliens (for instance, the one in AVP that killed a Predator and survived towards the end with the scars was clearly more competent than the rest) have aim dodged Predators. Also, their tail has been shown to range from 6-8 feet long and is their most deadly hand to hand weapon.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •