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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuthbert View Post
    I'm glad so many people seemed to have enjoyed the issue; I wish I could count myself among them. I thought there were several problems, ranging from confusing to nonsensical.

    For one, I was disappointed when Grayson ended, but was looking forward to the "globe-trotting" element that was promised to be in this Nightwing series. I loved that the first arc had that, and was not a fan when Dick got tied to Bludhaven again. So for this issue, I was excited to get back to those globe-trotting elements. However, I ended up disappointed. Supposedly, they're in Paris, but there's only one exterior shot of the cathedral and that's it. It just seems like a waste/pointless that this issue took place in Paris. Everything easily could've been in Bludhaven and nothing would be any different.

    One of the things I found to be "nonsensical" was when Damian could somehow read that the person in the tomb didn't have a face due to "temperature variations"... However, he didn't seem to be able to tell that the person in the tomb was a large male (Deathwing) and not a small female (Shawn). For that matter, how is hiding in a tomb a good way to get the drop on somehow? But I guess I have to digress on that point.

    I don't understand at all how Deathwing got Dick's memories. Maybe someone here can explain that for me? Wouldn't that mean Pyg knows Nightwing's, Robin's, and by extension, Batman's secret identities? He's the one who programmed Deathwing, right?

    What happened when Deathwing cut Dick's forehead? I understand that Dick was looking into the "multiverse" and gazing at other versions of himself. I don't understand how Deathwing's was able to give him that vision.

    The Robin dollotron came out of nowhere, and I think it was a cheap, deus ex machina save.

    Finally, Deathwing being a dollotron is really disappointing for me. I was hoping he would be a more significant addition to Nightwing's rogues gallery. Being a dollotron just seems like kind of a waste of the character. Why not have just made this a dollotron version of Nightwing and saved Deathwing for a more significant arc down the line?


    That all being said, I did really enjoy the interactions between Damian and Dick. Their relationship is one of my favorite things in comics.
    Maybe they could have stayed in Bludhaven. But then we'd still be in Bludhaven, and if we go to Paris on the flimsiest of reasons, why not. Pyg/Hurt's playing games with the things Dick loves. And that includes Robin Hood as well as Shawn. As well as Robin. Besides, isn't Paris where all artists dream of going?

    Tbh, I had the same thought about the face. But climbing out of a tomb is a cool entrance.

    Pyg knows who is who. Or Hurt, who he is most likely working with, knows at least. Dollotrobin announces himself as Damian Wayne.


    Pyg makes drugs that mess with your identity/ego. Deathwing had a dose of it on his blade. When he cuts Dick, he drugs him.


    I don't think that the Robin Dollotron comes out of nowhere. The issue is about *cough* dark mirrors of themselves. It's also interesting that the Robin dollotron is defective - which is once again tying into Damians insecurities.
    Last edited by HellHere; 03-16-2017 at 05:28 PM.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by HellHere View Post
    Maybe they could have stayed in Bludhaven. But then we'd still be in Bludhaven, and if we go to Paris on the flimsiest of reasons, why not. Pyg/Hurt's playing games with the things Dick loves. And that includes Robin Hood as well as Shawn. As well as Robin. Besides, isn't Paris where all artists dream of going?

    Tbh, I had the same thought about the face. But climbing out of a tomb is a cool entrance.

    Pyg knows who is who. Or Hurt, who he is most likely working with, knows at least. Dollotrobin announces himself as Damian Wayne.


    Pyg makes drugs that mess with your identity/ego. Deathwing had a dose of it on his blade. When he cuts Dick, he drugs him.


    I don't think that the Robin Dollotron comes out of nowhere. The issue is about *cough* dark mirrors of themselves. It's also interesting that the Robin dollotron is defective - which is once again tying into Damians insecurities.

    Right, I just feel like saying that we're ostensibly "in Paris" isn't really enough for me to count it as "globe-trotting". The first few pages had a lot of bright green colors, and I really liked that. But if you had handed me this exact same issue and said that Nightwing and Robin were on their way back to Bludhaven/Gotham from Paris, I never would have known that it was the other way around. It would have been nice to see a couple unique locations or environments that make it an artist's dream.

    Haha, I just meant that it probably takes a second to lift the lid off the tomb and then get to your feet, and you'd think a couple of guys as well trained as Dick and Damian would be able to react and defend themselves. But you're right, it is a cool entrance, so I give it a pass.

    Hmm, I guess I just thought that Pyg knowing all their secret identities would be a bigger thing. Dick and Damian didn't react at all when the dollotron introduced itself as Damian. It's been awhile since I read Batman & Robin Reborn, but I don't remember Pyg ever learning their identities. I guess it's not really that big of a deal, but it's something that kind of irked me.

    Thanks for your explanation about Dick's vision. It answered some questions, but raised a couple more. That would kind of make sense to me if Dick's visions were different (like maybe visions of the past or friends who have died or something), but he's gazing out into the multiverse. If Pyg can create a drug that allows people to see other versions of themselves across the multiverse, you'd think that would be touched on or mentioned. Unless it's meant to be a combination of Pyg's drug + the ongoing events of Rebirth that caused this "multiverse vision" to happen for Dick. If that's the case, I personally think that's a lot of filling in the blanks Seeley is asking from his readers.

    I still think the Robin dollotron was a bit of a deus ex machina. However, the comment about him being defective makes it slightly less egregious. Hopefully in the next issue we'll find out that Pyg originally intended for him and Deathwing to be a pair, but then the Robin went rogue and saved Dick and Damian instead.

  3. #108
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    I just had to check, but back in the Rise of Raptor, Dick is shown living with his parents in the Cirque Romanes des Paris, it's where his Mum grew up, and it's where he has to rescue Bruce from Raptor. So even though there's not been a lot of Paris shown right now, France been threaded in the book and is obviously being built up as an emotionally important place in Dick's life.

    Well, Damian reacted... and Dick finally got himself together enough to defuse the situation and get the info they wanted.

    I mean, Dick gets cut across his forehead, getting his 3rd eye opened, so we're definitely being invited to read his trip as him getting a mystical vision of the whole of dc's reality and it's definitely playing with what's happening with Rebirth.

    Deathwing says that "He said" Robin was a mistake because he doesn't have Deathwing's blood. I'm going to assume that since Pyg would have made the dollotron robin, the He being referred to is Hurt. DolloRobins drugs also don't seem to have taken very well because he remembers who he is through them, even if it's just for a minute. I mean, i don't know if it was intentional, or a lettering mishap, but assuming it's not, he's wearing the classic golden age suit, but the font he has for Robin is Tim's, and then he calls himself Damian. He's just patchwork. I love it, and I want to know what's going on there.
    Last edited by HellHere; 03-16-2017 at 06:43 PM.

  4. #109
    Incredible Member Rakiduam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HellHere View Post
    That's Damian as Nightwing from Injustice.
    Oh right! Thank you. I was thinking maybe Ibn al Xu'ffasch but it didn't seem right.

  5. #110
    Incredible Member Lady Nightwing's Avatar
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    I loved this issue. Damian was perfect. I can't believe he headbutted his way out of a tomb. That's such a Damian thing to do. I love that their idea of stretching is a sparring match on an airborne Batmobile. Fernandez draws the poutiest Damian. He's so cute.

    The last line from Pyg was chilling. "You put so much of what's inside you into your own work and now I'll put what's inside you into mine". I mean that's terrifying even if she wasn't pregnant. In utero Dollotron *shudder*. The poor defective Robin broke my heart. If he is defective maybe they can reverse it?

    I hope Dick and Shawn don't break up after this. He's clearly smitten.

  6. #111
    Fantastic Member lorraine's Avatar
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    The major disappointment I had with this issue was that Deathwing wasn't a 'real' villain but just a Dollotron. I hope he re-appears

    And it seems like this issue is not gonna get 50+ pages of juicy discussions.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorraine View Post
    The major disappointment I had with this issue was that Deathwing wasn't a 'real' villain but just a Dollotron. I hope he re-appears

    And it seems like this issue is not gonna get 50+ pages of juicy discussions.
    Lol. I actually loved that part. I liked that we also saw the old Deathwing though too.

    Also, I gotta wonder, but did anyone notice that the Robin dollotron in the pixie short look here?
    Last edited by Zeeguy91; 03-17-2017 at 01:06 PM.
    Favorite Mythologies: Green Lantern, Batman (pre-Flashpoint), Spider-Man, The Fantastic Four, the Justice League/JLA (pre-Flashpoint)

    DC Pulls - Action Comics; Batman; Hal Jordan & the GLC; Superman; Wonder Woman

    Marvel Pulls - Captain America: Steve Rogers; The Mighty Thor

    Non-Big Two Pulls - Saga; Archie

  8. #113
    Ultimate Member Robotman's Avatar
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    This was one of my favorite Nightwing issues in a very long time. Getting to see Dick and Damien together again was so much fun. They have the best chemistry of any Batfamily duo. I love the moments where Damien's hard exterior cracks and he shows just how much Grayson means to him.
    I can not tell you how happy I am to see Professor Pyg show up here. One of Nightwing's biggest problems has always been his lack of memorable villains. I always thought Pyg should be a Nightwing villain. He would just be wasted as yet another of Batman's rogues. He'd get lost in the shuffle. He first appeared when Grayson was under the cowl so it makes sense that he become a Nightwing villain. Not only that but Deathwing was very cool and creepy. The whole concept of the Dollotrons is just super creepy. I hope Deathwing survives and becomes a regular rogue. Nightwing can have his own Bizarro or Reverse Flash. A twisted version of the hero.

    Ok how the hell was Nightwing seeing the Multiverse?!? Was it just the chemicals that were on the knife?

    Also I really love how Seely has brought back Robin Hood as one of Grayson's heroes/inspirations. Which is just what Jerry Robinson intended. I recall seeing him at Comic Con years ago and he said "I have no idea why he's now associated with the bird. He was inspired by Robin Hood."
    Last edited by Robotman; 03-17-2017 at 12:24 AM.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorraine View Post
    And it seems like this issue is not gonna get 50+ pages of juicy discussions.
    Tbh, I wonder how many people can't get on here. I can access the boards at work (oops ) kind of access them on my laptop, and only get into threads through my search history on my pc. Ever since the boards had the downtime, it's just been a mess for me.

  10. #115
    Fantastic Member lorraine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HellHere View Post
    Tbh, I wonder how many people can't get on here. I can access the boards at work (oops ) kind of access them on my laptop, and only get into threads through my search history on my pc. Ever since the boards had the downtime, it's just been a mess for me.
    Really? Why is it difficult to get on here?

    On the other hand, I'm not sure if that kind of case is blocking this thread from producing dozens of pages

  11. #116
    Mighty Member NightwingIvI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HellHere View Post
    Tbh, I wonder how many people can't get on here. I can access the boards at work (oops ) kind of access them on my laptop, and only get into threads through my search history on my pc. Ever since the boards had the downtime, it's just been a mess for me.
    I think it has something more to do with a new member who recently dropped the series...
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batdog?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorraine View Post
    The major disappointment I had with this issue was that Deathwing wasn't a 'real' villain but just a Dollotron. I hope he re-appears

    And it seems like this issue is not gonna get 50+ pages of juicy discussions.
    Not enough shipping to argue about . but seriously I'm not sure how else they could've done Deathwing knowing so much about Dick. The old Deathwing stuff was pretty confusing.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorraine View Post
    Really? Why is it difficult to get on here?

    On the other hand, I'm not sure if that kind of case is blocking this thread from producing dozens of pages
    No idea but nearly every link i click just sends me back to the front page. I can access a few threads on my laptop today but there's no point even trying on my desktop. Nothing I've tried has fixed it.

    And yeah, I really liked this issue, but there's nothing like a fanic to bump the page numbers with wild speculation. I don't think I could handle another one of those so soon though
    Last edited by HellHere; 03-17-2017 at 12:55 PM.

  14. #119
    Fantastic Member lorraine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alycat View Post
    Not enough shipping to argue about . but seriously I'm not sure how else they could've done Deathwing knowing so much about Dick. The old Deathwing stuff was pretty confusing.
    Well, maybe next issue will bring in some more juicy arguments

    Tbh, I still don't know the exact purposes of the Deathwing and Robin Dollotrons. If they were in the same gang, why did they fight against each other? This issue leaves lots of questions which I hope will be covered in the upcoming issues.

  15. #120
    Astonishing Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HellHere View Post
    No idea but nearly every link i click just sends me back to the front page. I can access a few threads on my laptop today but there's no point even trying on my desktop. Nothing I've tried has fixed it.

    And yeah, I really liked this issue, but there's nothing like a fanic to bump the page numbers with wild speculation. I don't think I could handle another one of those so soon though
    That happened to 3 days ago I cleared my browser history and cookies and it started working.

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