Page 1 of 7 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 103
  1. #1
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,426

    Default How To Give Firestorm A Rebirth?

    In the "Injustice 2 trailer" thread we got to talking about Firestorm after he was (spoilers!) announced for the game. Needed its own thread.

    Here's the gist of it.

    There is no "main" Firestorm anymore. We've got three, all getting a lot of attention everywhere except the comics. We've got Ronnie in a cartoon, Jason in a video game, and Jax on the CW. In larger media 'Storm's actually doing pretty well. In the comics Firestorm's been MIA since Rebirth, and really has barely been seen in a few years outside of that overpriced miniseries from last year. Jason and Ronnie have co-existed since Brightest Day, and their fans seem to have learned to do the same.

    This is cool for now (its more than the character has seen since the 80's Super Friends), but things will need to be sorted out eventually and a more stable foundation laid down.

    So who should join Martin Stein as the other half of Firestorm? Each have their fans and their strengths and weaknesses as characters. And how do you tweak and adjust the characters you do use so they'll not only function, but be successful and interesting? Does Firestorm have to be only two people? Do you instead use everyone; Martin, Ronnie, Jason, maybe even Lorraine and/or Jax? Have them all be able to fuse (in what combinations?), with each individual bringing their own strengths to Firestorm? Or do you go all-in on one in particular character and forget the rest?

    Firestorm's in a nice position to make a big jump, but how do you capitalize on it? Do you need to do a soft reboot, or can you work with what you have exclusively?

    How do you Rebirth Firestorm?
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Discipline = Freedom.

    Invincible: The greatest superhero comic in the universe!

  2. #2
    Sector 2814 poroto678's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Santiago, Chile
    Posts
    774

    Default

    Considering there's absolutely nothing to lose, I'd give him a limited series with a full do-over and I'd take the character as far from standard super-heroics as posible, bc he clearly doesn't have much to offer in that department. Considering what DC did with Midnighter or what Marvel has done with characters like Vision, Hawkeye or others, originality is the only chance a character like that has... or joining a team, but that doesn't fix anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Firestorm's in a nice position to make a big jump
    Is he? He's not only my least favorite Legend (even considering that i find Nate really annoying, but i feel like he adds more to the plot), but also neither Jax nor Ronnie really added anything to the Flash or Legends. I mean, Jax could be gone tomorrow and I wouldn't care in the slightest.
    I love Stein, tho. He's cool. I actually could live with Stein and without Firestorm.
    Last edited by poroto678; 03-15-2017 at 07:19 PM.
    - We were the BEST, Richard. No matter what anyone thinks. - Damian Wayne.

    Green Lantern Spanish Fan Site HERE

  3. #3
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    9,003

    Default

    You don't.

    I know the character has his/her/its fans, but I've failed to find any version of the character in any media likable or interesting,ESPECIALLY on Legends, and I feel there are many other characters who deserve a Rebirth before him.

    We've already gone through a bunch of other Firestorms, so if they did get a rebirth, I'd want it to be a whole new character.

  4. #4

    Default

    No need.

    Firestorm already got a Rebirth in the pages of the Legends of Tomorrow mini-series.
    Pull List:
    Marvel: Spider-Man:Renew Your Vows, Champions, Silver Surfer, Hellcat, Slapstick
    DC: Blue Beetle (possible), Batman: White Knight

  5. #5
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,426

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by poroto678 View Post
    Considering there's absolutely nothing to lose, I'd give him a limited series with a full do-over and I'd take the character as far from standard super-heroics as posible, bc he clearly doesn't have much to offer in that department. Considering what DC did with Midnighter or what Marvel has done with characters like Vision, Hawkeye or others, originality is the only chance a character like that has... or joining a team, but that doesn't fix anything.
    I was thinking something similar. I mean, Martin Stein is one of the world's leading physicists, his first reaction to gaining superpowers, especially ones connected to the life of a young person, should not be "Let's go punch bank robbers in the face!" I think Stein would see Firestorm as a way to advance his research by decades, if not centuries, and a lot of the adventures Firestorm gets into could start with Martin "using" Firestorm to research the Matrix. Maybe they get lost, or discover a malignant force, or maybe someone else who is researching the Matrix pulls them out and captures them. And of course, if you absolutely need a superhero fight, the first thought a young person has upon gaining superpowers is "Let's go punch bank robbers in the face!" so when Ronnie/Jason/whoever gets their "turn" to use Firestorm, that's what they do.

    Is he? He's not only my least favorite Legend (even considering that i find Nate really annoying, but i feel like he adds more to the plot), but also neither Jax nor Ronnie really added anything to the Flash or Legends. I mean, Jax could be gone tomorrow and I wouldn't care in the slightest.
    I love Stein, tho. He's cool. I actually could live with Stein and without Firestorm.
    Oh, Stein certainly is the best part of that duo on the show (best part of Firestorm in general, if you ask me). But even if Firestorm isn't charming the hell out of everyone watching LoT it's still raising his profile, and Firestorm is also on the new JLA cartoon apparently, and Injustice 2 just announced the character as part of the game roster. So yeah, Firestorm is everywhere except the comics right now. And each version is going to have its fans. It might not be much, but Firestorm has more buzz around him now than he has in a long time and DC seems content to keep the pressure going (if that Rebirth Special poster/splash page was legit he'll be in the comics soon).

    EDIT: Firestorm even recently got a gear set in DCU Online (the head gear looks awesome) and the most recent new power (Atomic) is inspired (roughly) by him.
    Last edited by Ascended; 03-15-2017 at 09:11 PM.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Discipline = Freedom.

    Invincible: The greatest superhero comic in the universe!

  6. #6
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,426

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod G View Post
    No need.

    Firestorm already got a Rebirth in the pages of the Legends of Tomorrow mini-series.
    Was it good enough to serve as a Rebirth?

    I didnt read it (not for that cover price). I only heard about a couple things; basically Jason is tech support now or something, and Firestorm is back to Ronnie and Stein. Other than that I dont know what went down.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Discipline = Freedom.

    Invincible: The greatest superhero comic in the universe!

  7. #7
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    9,003

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by poroto678 View Post
    Considering there's absolutely nothing to lose, I'd give him a limited series with a full do-over and I'd take the character as far from standard super-heroics as posible, bc he clearly doesn't have much to offer in that department. Considering what DC did with Midnighter or what Marvel has done with characters like Vision, Hawkeye or others, originality is the only chance a character like that has... or joining a team, but that doesn't fix anything.



    Is he? He's not only my least favorite Legend (even considering that i find Nate really annoying, but i feel like he adds more to the plot), but also neither Jax nor Ronnie really added anything to the Flash or Legends. I mean, Jax could be gone tomorrow and I wouldn't care in the slightest.
    I love Stein, tho. He's cool. I actually could live with Stein and without Firestorm.
    Really? Jax's actor is terrible, but at least his character is decent most of the time. Stein though? He's a selfish, self-aggrandizing douchebag who's constantly screwing everyone else over. Every time he's on screen, I want Sara to throw him out the Waverider.

    Incidentally, aside from the "So Bad it's Good Factor", Sara and Mick are pretty much the only reasons I watch that show.

  8. #8
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,132

    Default

    I'm one of those that didn't like Firestorm. The issue I had is that both Ronnie and Jason came off as too simple apart and together. I feel like the nu52 concept was actually very legit. Have them both, let them fuse together into a super Firestorm. I still think that's a great idea. The issue, aside from the conflicts within the creative team, is that they both still came off as pretty shallow. Bromance books are some of my favorites, and Firestorm has two people in one body, it could be the ultimate Bromance book, but Quantum and Woody this ain't. My solution? Maybe it should be.

    The only version of Firestorm I've liked is in Justice League Action (albeit, he has the exact same personality as other characters in Justice League Action). I think Firestorm could work in a Quantum and Woody type niche. I mean, on some level they already do, fighting various science villains and all. I think if they can afford to be more tongue-and-cheek about it, and actually make Ronnie and Jason seem more like people than two angsty tired stereotypes, Firestorm could attract and maintain a fresh audience. Naturally, I'm not talking Deadpool levels of silliness, but something in line with Justice League Action or the older Teen Titans series would be about just right.

  9. #9
    Incredible Member JLH's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    812

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod G View Post
    No need.

    Firestorm already got a Rebirth in the pages of the Legends of Tomorrow mini-series.
    That was the first I enjoyed Firestorm in YEARS. IMO it really salvaged the character after what was generally a pretty horrible New 52 series, too. I much prefer the Stein/Ronnie combo but I'm glad Jason wasn't completely discarded.

  10. #10
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,692

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JLH View Post
    That was the first I enjoyed Firestorm in YEARS. IMO it really salvaged the character after what was generally a pretty horrible New 52 series, too. I much prefer the Stein/Ronnie combo but I'm glad Jason wasn't completely discarded.
    He is depowered-he was discarded. You don't hire a writer who doesn't care for Jason yet created Ronnie-that already tells me what was going to happen.

    It was bad enough when the New 52 book had that issue.

    Since we are in the era of make comics great for a certain demo at DC-leave Stein & Martin together and find someway Jason can be Firehawk or Firebat-not sitting in the background to be support. We have enough of that nonsense going on around here.

  11. #11
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,426

    Default

    I agree putting Jason on the sidelines looks bad. I wasn't a *huge* fan of his character but still, it shows a lack of awareness that is troubling.

    What I think I'd like to see is Stein, Ronnie, Jason, and Lorraine all connected to the Firestorm Matrix so no one gets the short-end. Firestorm doesnt have enough die-hard fans to keep a book alive, and they're split over who they prefer in the first place. Seems like bad business to take that small foundation and break it in half, even if the book's success would hinge on expanding the readership anyway.

    So I say use all four and let them fuse in any combination of two. Each brings a slightly different powerset or application of the Matrix with them so you could get some fun combinations (apparently this is how the New52 series handled it, or so Im told). And if you're so inclined all four can merge to create that giant monster from the New52 series.

    I'd also spread their ages around, to encourage different viewpoints and fun interactions. Stein is in his 60's, Ronnie's in his twenties (about Nightwing's age, and only because Killer Frost is in that age group and she's too good to change otherwise I'd have Ronnie much younger) Lorraine is in her 40's and Jason I'd make a young teen, about 14 (younger than usual, but I dont think there's enough difference between 18 and 23 to really matter). I'd like to avoid the idea of everyone fusing with a "regular" partner, but if it had to be done I think you could get a lot of mileage out of a very young Jason fusing with a Lorraine who's older and has her life together. Not unlike Stein's relationship with the various people he's partnered with over the years.

    And I think you have to make Firestorm more important to the DCU. Stein should be the guy in charge of STAR Labs. Not just the division head for one of the labs, but the whole organization. Sure, there'd be a board of directors to handle the business side of things but I want to see Martin being the one who decides which projects get funding and how much they get, and really just make him central to the science-side of DC. This would make him the boss of half the scientists in the DCU, which is a pretty lofty position. Lorraine I'd make a young Senator, politically Independent and very powerful within government because she'll cross party lines (look up Olympia Snow to see what I mean; she was called one of the most powerful Republicans in America because she'd work with Democrats), who's a leftist on social issues but can't help looking at Firestorm/Firehawk as a nuclear deterrent, to Stein's great alarm and concern.

    And I'd like to see Ronnie treated as less of an idiot. I'd make him a former athlete who busted his leg and still has the limp, who isn't college material but has certifications in a couple different trade skills (mechanic, welder, high class driver's license) and successfully built a career as a mechanic and makes solid, if not great, money. Jason would be an exceptional student from a broken home, always trying to break free from his situation, which he sees as chains around his neck (should be meta enough for DC). I'd like to avoid the "child prodigy" extremes but I'd still like to put a toe over that line; Jason's brilliant, just not in your standard "OMG Smartest there is!" comic book way. He could have already graduated from high school if his father would sign off on it, but he's not building nuclear reactors in his garage at twelve years old or anything either.

    I think that's a fairly solid mix; Martin would "use" Firestorm for scientific research (and get into adventures in the process), Lorraine brings in the political thriller/Firestorm Protocol concepts, Jason gives you the wish fulfillment superhero stories (because what kid isn't going to wanna be a hero when they get powers?) and Ronnie brings the Everyman viewpoint to the table.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Discipline = Freedom.

    Invincible: The greatest superhero comic in the universe!

  12. #12
    BANNED
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,435

    Default

    I love the CW shows, but there are two things that I can't ignore -

    1) Presumably due to the way the costume is designed, Barry can't *really* just pull his mask off and let it hang like a hood. Every time he takes his mask off, they cut to some other character and then back.
    2) Presumably due to special effects budget restrictions, they can't really have a lot of Firestorm. Which makes for some really ridiculous hoop-jumping to explain why Stein and Jax do not become Firestorm.

    Anyhoo, I'd rather they didn't do another "this is the status quo" so soon after the Firestorm series in the "LOT" mini-series. Having Jason as tech support isn't optimal, but I'd like to see them explore things as-is for a while before changing them yet again. You can most certainly bring Jason back into the matrix later on.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,907

    Default

    I actually liked the Nu52 set up they had with Firestorms from multiple countries all having their own version of the Firestorm Matrix. I also liked it more with it being Ronnie and Jason than I do with it being Ronnie and Stein. If I could do it now I would have it be Ronnie and Jason with Stein serving sort of like a mission control but not being part of them. All three would share a link when in Firestorm mode but to say talk to Stein they would really have to concentrate and focus. I would also have it so each time they merged they would have not way of controlling who was in the drivers seat. One time it would be Jason the next time it might be Ronnie. Ronnie would be more the tank rushing in using force while Jason would use the powers with more creativitey and finesse.

    Maybe if things got real bad all 3 of them could fuse into one creating the Fury if things got really bad, but that would be the last resort since Fury has sort of mind of its own and is very uncontrollable.


  14. #14
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,426

    Default

    I like the idea Zero Hunter, but let me ask you this;

    Martin Stein is the only consistent aspect of Firestorm across all media; he's in the CW show, the Injustice 2 game, and the JLA cartoon, as well as the comics. He's likely more well known than any of the young partners who have shared Firestorm (which is not saying much, but still).

    So could you downplay Stein as much as you're talking about here without it negatively impacting the book's sales potential?
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Discipline = Freedom.

    Invincible: The greatest superhero comic in the universe!

  15. #15
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    25,372

    Default

    I feel like it wouldn't be that hard to just keep Ronnie and Stein, give Jason someone new to fuse with for a duo Firestorm, and then bring in Firehawk.

    Add in a strong creative team with a good vision and handling of the characters and concept, and I think you're good to go .

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •