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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    See, I'm a Jason fan, not a big one, he's my least favorite currently of the 5 main Robins, but speaking as someone who likes him, I don't have a problem with him using guns. Mostly because I don't give half a crap about what Bruce thinks, and Jason has proven to be rather effective. That said, I would have preferred to if he'd stayed dead. Not because of who his character is now, but because his character had MORE meaning as the symbol that [B]not everyone who comes into the Batfam is gonna end up okay.[\B]
    Given what a bunch of basket cases they all are, I don't think you need to keep Jason dead to get that point across

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    See, I'm a Jason fan, not a big one, he's my least favorite currently of the 5 main Robins, but speaking as someone who likes him, I don't have a problem with him using guns. Mostly because I don't give half a crap about what Bruce thinks, and Jason has proven to be rather effective. That said, I would have preferred to if he'd stayed dead. Not because of who his character is now, but because his character had MORE meaning as the symbol that not everyone who comes into the Batfam is gonna end up okay.
    I totally agree with this. It's much more meaningful. This or being villain, a mistake of Batman so to be one of proofs that Batman is not a merry sue and in my personal fanstasy Jason should have stayed villain and ended up in suicide squade, now that would be awesome. I can totally see him be an interesting partner to Deadshot. I have this image in my mind that both Red Hood and Deadshot standing back to back pointing their guns in a gun fight. It looks pretty cool to me. He can use guns, rifles or whatever he wants in suicide squade but not in bat family...
    Last edited by Batarang; 03-18-2017 at 11:17 AM.

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member Assam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batarang View Post
    I totally agree with this. It's much more meaningful. This or being villain, a mistake of Batman so to be one of proofs that Batman is not a merry sue and in my personal fanstasy Jason should have stayed villain and ended up in suicide squade, now that would be awesome. I can totally see him be an interesting partner to Deadshot. I have this image in my mind that both Red Hood and Deadshot standing back to back pointing their guns in a gun fight. It looks pretty cool to me. He can use guns, rifles or whatever he wants in suicide squade but not in bat family...
    Jason and Deadshot are standing back to back with their guns.

    Catman walks in and sees them exchanging banter. A single tear runs down his eye.

    Thomas (to Deadshot): YOU NEVER REALLY LOVED ME!

  4. #34
    Incredible Member ayanestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    See, I'm a Jason fan, not a big one, he's my least favorite currently of the 5 main Robins, but speaking as someone who likes him, I don't have a problem with him using guns. Mostly because I don't give half a crap about what Bruce thinks, and Jason has proven to be rather effective. That said, I would have preferred to if he'd stayed dead. Not because of who his character is now, but because his character had MORE meaning as the symbol that not everyone who comes into the Batfam is gonna end up okay.
    Always happy to see someone thinks the same. Jason's death could have been an important part of Batman's character developement making him a better mentor, father and hero but instead Jason's death feels like any other superhero death in comics - meaningless. There was also the recent Batman issue where the boys were making fun of dying like in a bad fanfiction. It was a little bit funny but it also proved how meaningless death is in comics.

  5. #35
    "Im Mary Poppins Yall!" Aioros22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batarang View Post
    I tell you something baloney, hero Jason. He should have stayed as a villain. He had a purpose as a villain. Now, what does he have ? he has a shitty book and he's in Batfamily doing what ? being a wall flower, Batman would never accept a murderer as his ally... Jason being in the Bat family is such a bad writting, it's unbelievebale.
    No, thank you. I`m allergic to balloney and I didn`t ask for it.

    Merry Sue to you too you, funny guy

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member Assam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batarang View Post
    I tell you something baloney, hero Jason. He should have stayed as a villain. He had a purpose as a villain. Now, what does he have ? he has a shitty book and he's in Batfamily doing what ? being a wall flower, Batman would never accept a murderer as his ally... Jason being in the Bat family is such a bad writting, it's unbelievebale.
    Um, you know his son is a murderer, right? Like, I'm pretty sure Damian has killed more people than Jason. Also Alfred has DEFINITELY killed some guys in his time.

    Also, are you reading the current RHatO title? Cause while, yes, the entire New52 book was shit, the current book is actually one of the best rebirth titles.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    Jason and Deadshot are standing back to back with their guns.

    Catman walks in and sees them exchanging banter. A single tear runs down his eye.

    Thomas (to Deadshot): YOU NEVER REALLY LOVED ME!
    This is good beyond my expectations lol Deadshot and Red Hood are belong together... It's something only a marksman can understand poor catman. lol


    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    Um, you know his son is a murderer, right? Like, I'm pretty sure Damian has killed more people than Jason. Also Alfred has DEFINITELY killed some guys in his time.

    Also, are you reading the current RHatO title? Cause while, yes, the entire New52 book was shit, the current book is actually one of the best rebirth titles.
    Damian... yeah, this is why i'm like what happend to gun hating Batman who is totally not tolareting both guns and killing... But Damian doesn't carry a gun at least. Batman should be like GUNS !!!! not under my watch ! lol and no killing !...

    I wait for an omnibus or deluxes for titles like that. For example i hear great things about Priest's Deathstroke so if it's really that good, it will get deluxes or an omnibus and i will be there to get them. Same goes for the rest.
    Last edited by Batarang; 03-18-2017 at 11:43 AM.

  8. #38
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Bruce is not to be blamed. Jason had a rough life even before he met Bruce. And after his death, he went through some pretty horrible things. His life has never been easy. When he first came back to Gotham Jason blamed everyone. Now, he has accepted his life and takes responsibility for his actions and it's made him a better man.
    Im Mary Poppins, yall.---Yondu

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  9. #39
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    Logically? Of course he is, he saw an angry teenage petty thief living on the streets and figured being a superhero would be more helpful than therapy. That's objectively horrifying. But it was with most of the other sidekicks too even if they turned out better, and again, if we start pulling at that thread then soon we're gonna start asking how he and Alfred clear all the guano out of the Batcave, and everything falls apart.
    And if Bruce hadn't stepped in and helped Jason, there's no doubt in my mind that he would have ended up dead sooner than he dead. Even Jason would admit that. And I'm sure he's happy that Bruce came into his life.
    Im Mary Poppins, yall.---Yondu

    "There is a difference between you and me. We both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back at us... you blinked."---Batman

    "I am a mad man with a box!"---The Doctor

    "Man wants to punch a beehive, let him punch a beehive"---Mark Waid

    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.---John 3:16

  10. #40
    Fantastic Member Rise's Avatar
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    You don't take a kid with issues from the streets, put him in a costume and then be suprised that he end up with more issues.

    Bruce might have good intentions, but there's no denying that he end up dooming him and he's responsible for what happened since Jason was a kid who was under his care. So no, Batman isn't completely blameless.

    And besides, Flashpoint proved that Jason would have turned out ok with a good life if he never crossed paths with Batman.
    Last edited by Rise; 03-18-2017 at 02:00 PM.

  11. #41
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    I respect your opinion about Jason's death and its symbolism, but as someone who got into comics because of the Batman Under the Red Hood movie back in 2011 and a huge Red Hood fan since then, I say Jason's resurrection was one of the best things DC did.

    As for Bruce and Jason, they both have to be held responsible for their actions. Jason isn't a child anymore and follows his own path, it took a while but he and Bruce have established a good relationship. Bruce won't try to stop Jason from using guns or killing enemies (something he rarely does nowadays anyway) and Jason won't try to convince him to kill the Joker, they moved beyond that and that's a good thing. Character development is always welcome in my book.

    Damian is a child and the current Robin, so obviously Batman will force his moral code on him. Also, I don't think Bruce's problem with guns makes him such a hypocrite that he considers a gunshot worse that a blade's slashing. What is worse? Getting gunned down or stabbed to death?

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    That said, I would have preferred to if he'd stayed dead. Not because of who his character is now, but because his character had MORE meaning as the symbol that not everyone who comes into the Batfam is gonna end up okay.
    After 15 years I think that symbol kind of lost his meaning, especially since almost every Batfamily member was dead (or at least believed t be dead) and came back to live by now.

  13. #43
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    Both are guilty in some way.

    We can blame Bruce for putting Jason in the battle instead of help him by other ways due Jason' hard life. It's supossed that Bruce is the adult here, so all Jason actions are part of his responsabilty when Jason was Robin, in more or less degree.

    It's true that Jason accepts to be Robin, he took that decision in the end, and the job have risks that Jason already knew. But Jason was a kid, he didn't have enough maturity and mentallity by his own to make that decision, so again it's Bruce fault because he's the adult here and he should know that.

    So yes, Jason's actions as a Robin and his death are Bruce's responsability.

    After his death, Jason's actions are only his own responsibility. He made their own decissions. And he can't blame Bruce for his death, not totally, because after all it was him and only him who made the decision to be Robin, although it was Bruce's fault to let him did that. He can't use that excuse to avoid the impact of his own decissions in his life.

    In the end, they just tried to do the things the best they could, that's all.

  14. #44
    Veteran Member theoneandonly's Avatar
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    Here is a link with scans from the story arc in gotham knights where a social worker investigates the death of Jason and a perspective is provided for the role Bruce played in Jason's life, whether he was a good father or not etc.
    https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/516022.html
    The Self is the only existing reality

  15. #45
    "Im Mary Poppins Yall!" Aioros22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoneandonly View Post
    Here is a link with scans from the story arc in gotham knights where a social worker investigates the death of Jason and a perspective is provided for the role Bruce played in Jason's life, whether he was a good father or not etc
    The only thing that brings the arc down is how terrible Alfred was written. Second only to Hook cosplaying Alfred AFAIAC.

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