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  1. #1
    the devil's reject choptop's Avatar
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    Default THE Mule vs Kilgrave

    Mule (Foundation) vs Kilgrave (MCU) who wins?

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    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    The Mule can subtly influence emotions, which is a nice talent to have.
    Killgrave can just tell someone to stop breathing or otherwise kill themselves, which seems more useful in an actual fight.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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    The Mule's power has greater range, he can read emotions, and mind-rape people as well as influence them.

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    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saitou Hajime View Post
    The Mule's power has greater range, he can read emotions, and mind-rape people as well as influence them.
    But how fast can he do it? The stories are IIRC kinda vague on that. Also, can he incapacitate Kilgrave with it?
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    But how fast can he do it? The stories are IIRC kinda vague on that. Also, can he incapacitate Kilgrave with it?
    From what I read, all he has to do is think it and it happens. Killgrave's nastiness will be practically ringing alarm bells in the Mule's head and give him all the incentive he needs to shut him down fast. And considering he was matching the members of the Second Foundation in psychic warfare, I'm confident he can break Killgrave.

  6. #6
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    But how fast can he do it? The stories are IIRC kinda vague on that. Also, can he incapacitate Kilgrave with it?
    The only reason he failed in the first story was because he had a soft spot for the person involved, I don't think he'll have that hesitation here.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    But how fast can he do it?
    The Mule is extremely fucking fast in terms of mind control. To wit, somebody very much his lesser in skill and power could remove mind control that the Mule had implanted in someone and then put up mind control of his own in rather less than 0.2 seconds.

    And once again Channis stared into the muzzle of a blaster. A muzzle guided this time by a mind, not like Pritcher's capable of offhand twisting to suit himself, but by one as mature as his own and as resistant to force as his own.
    And the period of time allotted him for a correction of events was small.
    What followed thereafter is difficult to describe by one with the normal complement of senses and the normal incapacity for emotional control.
    Essentially, this is what Channis realized in the tiny space of time involved in the pushing of the Mule's thumb upon the trigger contact.
    The Mule's current emotional makeup was one of a hard and polished determination, unmisted by hesitation in the least. Had Channis been sufficiently interested afterward to calculate the time involved from the determination to shoot to the arrival of the disintegrating energies, he might have realized that his leeway was about one-fifth of a second.
    That was barely time.
    What the Mule realized in that same tiny space of time was that the emotional potential of Channis' brain had surged suddenly upwards without his own mind feeling any impact and that, simultaneously, a flood of pure, thrilling hatred cascaded upon him from an unexpected direction.
    It was that new emotional element that jerked his thumb off the contact. Nothing else could have done it, and almost together with his change of action, came complete realization of the new situation.
    It was a tableau that endured far less than the significance adhering to it should require from a dramatic standpoint. There was the Mule, thumb off the blaster, staring intently upon Channis.
    There was Channis taut, not quite daring to breathe yet.
    And there was Pritcher, convulsed in his chair; every muscle at a spasmodic breaking point; every tendon writhing in an effort to hurl forward; his face twisted at last out of schooled woodenness into an unrecognizable death mask of horrid hate; and his eyes only and entirely and supremely upon the Mule.
    Only a word or two passed between Channis and the Mule - only a word or two and that utterly revealing stream of emotional consciousness that remains forever the true interplay of understanding between such as they. For the sake of our own limits, it is necessary to translate into words what went on, then, and thenceforward.
    Channis said, tensely: "You’re between two fires, First Citizen. You can't control two minds simultaneously, not when one of them is mine - so you have your choice. Pritcher, is free of your Conversion now. I've snapped the bonds. He's the old Pritcher; the one who tried to kill you once; the one who thinks you're the enemy of all that is free and right and holy; and he's the one besides who knows that you've debased him to helpless adulation for five years. I'm holding him back now by suppressing his will, but if you kill me, that ends, and in considerably less time than you could shift your blaster or even your will - he will kill you."
    The Mule quite plainly realized that. He did not move.
    Channis continued: "If you turn to place him under control, to kill him, to do anything, you won't ever be quick enough to turn again to stop me."
    The Mule still did not move. Only a soft sigh of realization.
    "So," said Channis, "throw down the blaster, and let us be on even terms again, and you can have Pritcher back."
    "I made a mistake," said the Mule, finally. "It was wrong to have a third party present when I confronted you. It introduced one variable too many. It is a mistake that must be paid for, I suppose."
    He dropped the blaster carelessly, and kicked it to the other end of the room. Simultaneously, Pritcher crumpled into profound sleep.
    "He’ll be normal when he awakes," said the Mule, indifferently.
    The entire exchange from the time the Mule's thumb had begun pressing the trigger-contact to the time he dropped the blaster had occupied just under a second and a half of time.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Beaten to everything I could otherwise note down to a quote, I simply want to note that if not for the various 40k threads, this would definitely be the nerdiest thread on the board in a while. Which is delightful.

    Also, ugh, come to think of it, this thread is tangentially reminding me of the whole effing Gaia/Galaxia direction everything went after this in Foundation, so now I've changed my mind and I super hate this thread and everything in it.

  9. #9
    the devil's reject choptop's Avatar
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    what if they switch places? Kilgrave gos to the Foundation universe and the mule gos to the MCU how do things go down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Also, ugh, come to think of it, this thread is tangentially reminding me of the whole effing Gaia/Galaxia direction everything went after this in Foundation, so now I've changed my mind and I super hate this thread and everything in it.

    what is the Gaia/Galaxia direction thing you speak of? im not at the end of the books yet and want to know what im geting into.
    Last edited by choptop; 03-19-2017 at 08:51 PM.

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    Astonishing Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    I don't want to spoil it then. I will simply say I personally find it thematically undermines the entire series.

  11. #11
    the devil's reject choptop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    I don't want to spoil it then. I will simply say I personally find it thematically undermines the entire series.
    plz spoil it i want to know what its about really its not going to make a difference or ruin it for me.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    It's seriously better to read it yourself in its fullness and form your own opinion. Some people liked it just fine after all* and you might be one of them.


    *Garbage people. Garbage people liked it.

  13. #13
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by choptop View Post
    what if they switch places? Kilgrave gos to the Foundation universe and the mule gos to the MCU how do things go down?
    Kilgrave is barely a blip in the Foundation universe because he can't affect entire nations at a time, and because his stuff wears off.

    The Mule does worse than Kilgrave in the MU because he goes down hard the moment he runs into somebody with psy resistance or immunity, and because unlike Kilgrave he doesn't keep a low profile or uses his powers for petty, personal reasons. He's louder and more visible, and will therefore face superheroic opposition sooner.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  14. #14
    Incredible Member moonknight11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    It's seriously better to read it yourself in its fullness and form your own opinion. Some people liked it just fine after all* and you might be one of them.


    *Garbage people. Garbage people liked it.
    Is this from the books after the first three? If so, I'm now glad i never went past Second Foundation.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Prettty much, yeah

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