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  1. #106
    Veteran Member Vworp Vworp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    I've read reviews with a clear SJW bias such as a reviewer saying how "problematic" a scene was with between Danny and Colleen when he was lecturing her about overextending her use of external force while fighting. Apparently it's wrong for a white guy to give advice to an East Asian on improving the way they fight.
    I've certainly seen comments like that in a fair few reviews. And with regard to that aspect of the show, I don't agree with them. But what I don't think is that it's some kind of underground conspiracy to denounce the show. Because aside from those comments, there are a number of other flaws mentioned about the show, and they're flaws that are readily apparent (pacing, characterisation, some of the performances, etc). Now, if you disagree, that's cool. Same as people disagreed about Bats vs Supes (and actually thought it was a good film). And Ghostbusters too, now that I think of it - but any bad reviews for that were presumably anti-SJW's, right?

    And that's what I don't understand. This seeming need amongst some people to find a reason/excuse for bad reviews. Isn't it enough that you enjoyed it? I mean, isn't that in itself a victory over someone who disagrees with your opinion? Because you've got to see something you've enjoyed... and they haven't. So who cares what they think?

  2. #107
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vworp Vworp View Post
    I've certainly seen comments like that in a fair few reviews. And with regard to that aspect of the show, I don't agree with them. But what I don't think is that it's some kind of underground conspiracy to denounce the show. Because aside from those comments, there are a number of other flaws mentioned about the show, and they're flaws that are readily apparent (pacing, characterisation, some of the performances, etc). Now, if you disagree, that's cool. Same as people disagreed about Bats vs Supes (and actually thought it was a good film). And Ghostbusters too, now that I think of it - but any bad reviews for that were presumably anti-SJW's, right?

    And that's what I don't understand. This seeming need amongst some people to find a reason/excuse for bad reviews. Isn't it enough that you enjoyed it? I mean, isn't that in itself a victory over someone who disagrees with your opinion? Because you've got to see something you've enjoyed... and they haven't. So who cares what they think?
    A review isn't going to change my enjoyment of a product. My problem with most of the Iron Fist reviews I read is the series isn't judged on its own merit. It reads like their political bias is clouding them and creating issues that ain't there. I tend to agree with some of the legitimate critisms like lackluster fights, Danny being a difficult character to get behind, bad call to downplay the mystical elements and I can see how people can found it boring.

  3. #108
    Snake eyes vs Stormshadow Handsome men don't lose fights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    It's the lack of training.
    Jessica could kill those cage fighters with one blow each and there isn't much they could do to defend themselves, but she lacks the skill to take them out quickly without killing them. She needs to hold back a lot in fights.
    She's also not invulnerable. She can be injured with bladed weaponry and guns, or hurt herself by using her powers (break a knuckle punching through a wall for example.) So even though she's powerful, her abilities don't guarantee her a win against a well-trained opponent.
    I didnít stand a chance. This girl had a grin like a razor,
    and the confidence of a shark in a swimming lane.
    If she said to jump, Iíd ask how high? And how far to fall?
    It wasnít because she was pretty; it was because she was a killer.
    And you just canít say no to a killer.


  4. #109
    Shou-Lao The Bitch Dragon Iron Fist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handsome men don't lose fights View Post
    She's also not invulnerable. She can be injured with bladed weaponry and guns, or hurt herself by using her powers (break a knuckle punching through a wall for example.) So even though she's powerful, her abilities don't guarantee her a win against a well-trained opponent.
    In terms of sheer power I think we're looking at Danny > Jessica > Luke > Daredevil.

  5. #110
    Poor Doomed Thing Panic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vworp Vworp View Post
    It's interesting to see a lot of people looking for 'justification' for the bad reviews. It's basically Batman vs Superman all over again, although now it's not an anti-DC bias that is inspiring critics to write a bad reviews, it's an SJW bias. Because the one thing it absolutely, positively couldn't be is that they just weren't keen on the show. Which is odd... because it doesn't seem like a huge leap to think that anyone might not enjoy Iron Fist. For all sorts of reasons, many of which have been mentioned in the reviews.

    For me, Iron Fist isn't all that dissimilar to any of Netflix's previous Marvel efforts. And as I haven't been a huge fan of any of those so far, it just seems like the critics are finally catching on... maybe now the "gritty realism" novelty is wearing off.
    Well this is the thing: most of the people who are complaining of SJW bias are doing so because many of the reviewers don't seem to have any major problems with the previous Marvel/Netflix shows, despite them sharing many of the same flaws the critics have been pummelling Iron Fist for.

    I'm a long time Iron Fist fan and I think that (from the five episodes I've watched) it's the weakest of the Netflix Marvels - the first episode especially was amateurish in writing and acting in some places; most of us here feel there is a fair amount to criticise. However if you've been able to work your way through the other Netflix series, this isn't that different. I don't think many of us here view it as a conspiracy, just that the level of criticism is a little disproportionate to the drop in quality. I personally think you are right about the gritty realism novelty wearing off, or rather IF just doesn't fit with that vibe, especially not with the clumsy writing that's been on display in several of the episodes I've seen (so far).
    Last edited by Panic; 03-19-2017 at 12:12 PM.

  6. #111
    Veteran Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vworp Vworp View Post
    I've certainly seen comments like that in a fair few reviews. And with regard to that aspect of the show, I don't agree with them. But what I don't think is that it's some kind of underground conspiracy to denounce the show. Because aside from those comments, there are a number of other flaws mentioned about the show, and they're flaws that are readily apparent (pacing, characterisation, some of the performances, etc). Now, if you disagree, that's cool. Same as people disagreed about Bats vs Supes (and actually thought it was a good film). And Ghostbusters too, now that I think of it - but any bad reviews for that were presumably anti-SJW's, right?

    And that's what I don't understand. This seeming need amongst some people to find a reason/excuse for bad reviews. Isn't it enough that you enjoyed it? I mean, isn't that in itself a victory over someone who disagrees with your opinion? Because you've got to see something you've enjoyed... and they haven't. So who cares what they think?
    Last point first first, many of the the reviews were somewhat amateur. They seemed to totally miss some of the key points of the story. I read one review that focussed in on Danny telling the homeless guy 'I guess people see us the same' as an example of arrogant and smug characterisation, when if they had considered this perspective for thirty seconds they would have realised he was having a moment of self realisation that he probably came across as the kind of crazy homeless person that would advocate urinating in your own shoes. They seemed to not get that Danny has the understanding of New York that an over-privileged and sheltered ten year old has.

    But I am mainly interested in the SJW accusations. Anyone throwing around those three letters is probably making an agenda laden point. There is no such thing as a self labelled Social Justice Warrior, it is a defamatory label given by other people. It would be easy to totally ignore anyone that uses the label, and sometimes for our sanity we should.

    However there is one underlying point that I think is valid. If you analyse media looking for cultural signifiers of race, creed, politics or gender, you are engaged in a very different thing than standard TV criticism. It is not fair to cast a superficial glance at a single TV show and call it out for something that is prevalent in the entire culture. When a serious cultural theorist analyses a show like this to tease out notions of race and colonialism they are doing so as part of a wider intellectual pursuit and not as a way of telling us which shows are worth watching.

    So in summary, when a critic of a TV show starts analysing whether the show is a poor example of cultural appropriation, without getting into any deep evidence-lead arguments and simply mentioning the headline casting choice we should probably dismiss that review as at least ill-informed and headline grabbing.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 03-19-2017 at 12:02 PM.

  7. #112
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5Eyes View Post
    Here's the thing, If you like Daredevil, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage and watch Iron fist and hated it, which is pretty much like any Marvel Netflix's series, we're gonna search for a reason, because the series is pretty much in par with any of the other series, and Unlike DC-Fans (I really do like you guys but lets admit you guys really cannot take bad review and I'm being kind when I say that) who panned critics for being anti-dc which is rooted in pretty much nothing, our reasoning does, ever Since Iron Fist was first announce, the SJW been been in all out war harassing on why Danny Rand is not Asian ... so yes, some of us come up to the conclusion that their review is skewered for that reason or if you prefer we can use the some-what non-rooted reason and say that Rotten Tomatoes is owned by WB (and I say some-what because they kind of do )
    Except it's not like any Netflix series. It's suppose to be about Iron Fist and Fin Jones is no Iron Fist. His fight scenes are pedestrian compared to what one would expect from an Iron Fist.

    In addition the gritty realism doesn't work here because the one original thing about Iron Fist is the mysticism which is nearly absent from the show.

    It's not about SJW. This show isn't Iron Fist. This show is about a dude masquerading as Iron Fist but nothing about the show and its Plot Induced Stupidity feels like the real Iron Fist. The boardroom scenes were more entertaining than the Martial Arts which is sad when the show is suppose to be about one of the greatest martial artists ever.

    The other shows may have had similar issues at times with pacing but the difference is the actors/actresses actually felt like the character they were playing.
    Last edited by remydat; 03-19-2017 at 12:23 PM.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

  8. #113
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! Dark Knight1047's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Fist View Post
    Discuss the first 6 episodes of the show in here.

    Finished episode 1, and so far I honestly cannot see what all the bad reviews are about.

    The pacing is no slower than any other show, it's definitely faster than most episodes of Luke Cage.

    Only criticism so far to hold us is that the show does seem to be more story focused and thus is action light at this stage.
    This is my criticism as a whole for most of the first half.
    "There is a difference between you and me. We both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back at us... you blinked."

    "I am a mad man with a box!"

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  9. #114
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! Dark Knight1047's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman#22 View Post
    Personally I think Iron Fist has the best opening credits then the rest of the Marvel Netflix shows so far.
    I agree with this. The opening credits is really cool. DD's has a nice score, but I love IF's a lot more.
    "There is a difference between you and me. We both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back at us... you blinked."

    "I am a mad man with a box!"

    Mark Waid--"Man wants to punch a beehive, let him punch a beehive"

    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.---John 3:16

  10. #115
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! Dark Knight1047's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Fist View Post
    The 'so slow its boring!' one always gets me. Since Iron Fist has WAY better pacing than Luke Cage and they ate that shit up.
    Yep. I actually didn't care for Luke or Jessica Jones because I felt both shows were very slow.
    "There is a difference between you and me. We both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back at us... you blinked."

    "I am a mad man with a box!"

    Mark Waid--"Man wants to punch a beehive, let him punch a beehive"

    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.---John 3:16

  11. #116
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! Dark Knight1047's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Fist View Post
    In terms of sheer power I think we're looking at Danny > Jessica > Luke > Daredevil.
    Sheer power? Yeah, I would agree with this. Pretty spot on.
    "There is a difference between you and me. We both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back at us... you blinked."

    "I am a mad man with a box!"

    Mark Waid--"Man wants to punch a beehive, let him punch a beehive"

    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.---John 3:16

  12. #117
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Iron Fist is fantastic so far and it's a shame the bad press over such a good show. Hand has struggled somewhat as villains in this Netflix verse, but this series is doing a great job of making them feel more dangerous and a big deal. The series doesn't open as strong as Luke Cage or others, but it still starts good enough and the show really picks up. This is a fantastic show so far. All these Netflix shows are the best comic book adaptations out there and I say that as DC guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    My problem with most of the Iron Fist reviews I read is the series isn't judged on its own merit. It reads like their political bias is clouding them and creating issues that ain't there.
    I agree, it really bothers me.
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 03-19-2017 at 02:21 PM.
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  13. #118
    New old guy Surf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    It's not about SJW. This show isn't Iron Fist. This show is about a dude masquerading as Iron Fist but nothing about the show and its Plot Induced Stupidity feels like the real Iron Fist. The boardroom scenes were more entertaining than the Martial Arts which is sad when the show is suppose to be about one of the greatest martial artists ever.

    The other shows may have had similar issues at times with pacing but the difference is the actors/actresses actually felt like the character they were playing.
    Agreed. Except this is the version we got, his characterization just doesn't rise or build to what they've already brought in the Marvel Netflix Universe. Daredevil S1 was red meat, S2 was read meat, Luke Cage was red meat, I don't know what JJ is I didn't watch it but Iron Fist is chicken breast. I dig meat so it's all good but just not like the others.

    I only saw a pair of early reviews but I can't say I agreed with either.
    Beefing up the old home security, huh?
    You bet yer ass.

  14. #119

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    I do wish they'd be more free about involving mysticism for.the villains and to a lesser extent Ironfist himself. However, it seems like in the show that Danny barely knows anything about the Ironfist abilities and what he can do. So, I can kind of forgive.the fact he's not breaking it out doing cool stuff every second on that basis. Still, it annoys me to no end how they are just avoiding even saying the word magic. It Almost feels like a walking dead situation where the zombie more was never a thing in universe.

    My biggest complaint with the show is the actor of Danny himself. I feel like he isn't a good actor.
    The pacing of the show isnt all that surprising. Yes, it could be faster. However, I'm alright with it. Slow burn is ok sometimes, although here the lack of overarching villain had me losing interest. Needham's are the best part of the show of the first six episodes, which is kinda weird.

  15. #120
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surf View Post
    Agreed. Except this is the version we got, his characterization just doesn't rise or build to what they've already brought in the Marvel Netflix Universe. Daredevil S1 was red meat, S2 was read meat, Luke Cage was red meat, I don't know what JJ is I didn't watch it but
    Pretty sure Jessica was bourbon.

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