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  1. #16
    Ultimate Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    The Knightmare scene had Apokoliptian visuals to it. If I was to guess, I'd say that this was the result of Darkseid brainwashing Superman to be his pawn. The specifics of what it had to do with Lois are hard to guess. But maybe Bats and Supes working together will prevent Darkseid from getting to him?

    Anyways, what does this have to do with comparing Supes and WW? Well, in that possible future Supes apparently took over Earth with an army from Apokolips. We know that at the very least he had an army of Parademons at his command.
    Yes.

    IF the Knightmare sequence DID suggest Diana's death, that doesn't mean she died at Superman's hands alone. She could've been overwhelmed by his army, for all we know. Maybe Darkseid destroyed her himself for whatever reason. It's not nearly specific enough to draw any conclusions about Diana's abilities as compared to Superman's.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  2. #17
    Woman Of Troy Troian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    What evidence do we have that Diana wouldn't stand a chance against Superman? We saw her go toe-to-toe with the thing that killed him and she inflicted real damage on him, whereas Superman's powers did nothing.

    Right now, evidence points strongly in the direction that Diana could kick Clark's ass in a straight fight. She has the defensive capability to negate his ranged advantage from his heat vision. Heck, we saw her take heat vision from Doomsday and it didn't seem to hurt her anyway. She's definitely demonstrating super-strength in her own trailer, so she can hit him hard enough to hurt him. She's got energy blasts. She's got a sword that can probably cut him. She's got the Lasso, which enabled her to hold Doomsday at bay. She may or may not even have flight. And, of course, she's actually a skilled fighter. And we've seen how poorly Clark does against skilled fighters in MOS and BvS.
    That's probably because DD was made from a fellow Kryptonian, Superman doesn't have a weapon to slice him until the end nor did he have a lasso to restrain him. Diana's raw strength alone would not been able to cut DD's skin like butter and her blast did nothing to him but send him back a few feet. And Domsday seemed more occupied with Clark. That said, Clark's heatvision will do nothing in her.

    She has a weapons and skill advantage though but on strength feats, raw speed and striking power? We've seen much better feats from Clark.

    Skill wise, all Diana's did was mostly weapons fighting, though the movie will likely change that bit. The Kryptonians were doing h2h and more physical strikes. Also, in MoS Clark showed that he's not a dolt in h2h. The sword will probably be the game changer but Clark can send her to space or something. They're fairly even and I don't think either one will be dominating each other.

    Anyways, them bracelets better be suppressing Diana's energy power because if it took a blast that only sent Doomsday and an Amazon flying but never really destroying anything else to defeat Ares, I will be disappointed. Also, I'd be glad if she can't fly. Only because looking at her flying like Clark with that costume just doesn't look right. She looks like someone who would be grounded but can jump really high.

  3. #18
    Fantastic Member enish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troian View Post

    She has a weapons and skill advantage though but on strength feats, raw speed and striking power? We've seen much better feats from Clark.

    It is not like we have as much footage of her abilities as we do of Superman's right? And given the little we have and the statements of the DC officials, it's only fair to assume that she is Superman's match in terms of raw power. I mean, that would be stupid to advertise her with words like "power, strength, courage, and so..." just to show her as an average super human right? There would be some huge backlash over this.

  4. #19
    Fantastic Member enish's Avatar
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    By the way, could a mod fix my typo in the thread's title please? I seem to have forgotten about the 's after Wonder Woman as in Wonder Woman's powers in the DCEU. It's not that big a deal, but it frustrates me to leave such a stupid typo in a title!

  5. #20
    Fantastic Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    Yes.

    IF the Knightmare sequence DID suggest Diana's death, that doesn't mean she died at Superman's hands alone. She could've been overwhelmed by his army, for all we know. Maybe Darkseid destroyed her himself for whatever reason. It's not nearly specific enough to draw any conclusions about Diana's abilities as compared to Superman's.
    If the writers did like me and grew up watching Superfriends...... Maybe Darkseid had more insidious plans for her.

    (In Superfriends he once tried to force WW to marry him.)

  6. #21
    Fantastic Member BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enish View Post
    Enhanced senses



    Super-Speed:
    She displays super speed during her first assault on DD but there is this special moment after she recovers from being hit by DD where you can clearly see that she is super-fast. The vfx and sound suggest it! And she also displays super speed in the trailers where she deflects the bullets and when she charges through a piece of concrete.
    Can you explain to us her use of a horse as a means to go to some kind of combat in the trailer previews? Especially if you are saying she has super speed and is super fast.

  7. #22
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiteTheBullet View Post
    Can you explain to us her use of a horse as a means to go to some kind of combat in the trailer previews? Especially if you are saying she has super speed and is super fast.
    I can take a guess but we have very little to go on.

    1. Diana is unaware of her powers at the beginning of the movie and has been raised like any other Amazon.

    2. Nazis invade Themyscira.

    3. Diana, Steve and some other Amazons are shown riding horses in one clip.

    My conclusion is that the shot of Diana riding down on the Nazis is a direct follow up to the Amazon/Steve ride through the woods. She is either new to or unaware of her leaping/flight/speed abilities and/or she's already *on* a horse riding with other people who don't have powers and is just doing what comes naturally for someone who has spent a lifetime training in the art of mounted combat.

  8. #23
    Fantastic Member enish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiteTheBullet View Post
    Can you explain to us her use of a horse as a means to go to some kind of combat in the trailer previews? Especially if you are saying she has super speed and is super fast.
    Well, she was shown riding a horse indeed, but she was also shown to be super fast when she charges through the piece of concrete. As Gaelforce has suggested, she might have just done what came naturally to her since riding horses is a cutural thing!

    By the way Gaelforce, thanks for fixing my typo

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    Yes.

    IF the Knightmare sequence DID suggest Diana's death, that doesn't mean she died at Superman's hands alone. She could've been overwhelmed by his army, for all we know. Maybe Darkseid destroyed her himself for whatever reason. It's not nearly specific enough to draw any conclusions about Diana's abilities as compared to Superman's.
    I'd say that sequence only suggested Diana's absence. You don't know if she's alive or dead at this stage... or if she ever existed, since it was a dream sequence tinged with foresight, Bruce at that stage didn't even know Diana the superhuman existed... only that she nicked his harddrive.

    Perhaps a good point to make actually, Diana may have superhearing on par with Superman since she knew what Bruce was doing and beat him in the retrieval.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by enish View Post
    If anything, the battle against Doomsday proves otherwise.

    With all due respect, I don't understand why you are so easy to dismiss Diana's feats, basing your arguments mostly on assumptions while there are various hints and statements from the producers that very much confirms the extent of her powers? I Think you might have a very biased readings on Diana's abilities so far, especially when it comes to debating about the Doomsday fight. Let me just remind you of something, when Supes came back to Earth, he had recovered entirely thanks to the sun. He had direct contact with pure solar energy, unfiltered by the atmosphere and I pretty much think that he was super-charged.

    Even a super-charged Superman was no match to a Doosmday who had already evolved like 3 times. And that's when Diana came to intervene physically against him, she intervened against a level 3 Doomsday for the gods' sakes! A Doomsday who had survived and recovered from missiles, gunshots, and a nuke! Still she was able to tank him and hurt him and was also able to recover pretty fast from him throwing her around, and we cannot say the same for Superman.

    Up to this point we can only rely on the actual footage we have indeed, but there are also comments from the cast, the director, the producers who have given us hints and teased us about Diana's power level on several occasions. And the level of reliability and officiality cannot be questionned.

    Geoff Johns said that Wonder Woman is like a blend of Batman and Superman, she "has the powers of Superman" but is a much better fighter. Some people who have been to the Edit bay have reported that Diana, in the DCEU, is actually more powerful and stronger than long term DC comics fan could ever hope. I believe you can find the sources on the Comicbook.com website, that is the source I base my current statements upon.

    Now, we are yet to read any actual statements from DC and Warner Bros officials that say anything about WW being weakened or that she would not win a battle against Superman, which I think is a possibility when you see how they fared against Doomsday. Not mentionning the fact that she was actually designed to be able to kill gods.
    spoilers:
    She was created to kill Ares specifically, she's not gonna vaporize Steppenwolf with a blast this god killing power now is she. What I'm told is that this power is harmless to most beings but lethal to Ares, just as kryptonite poisons Superman. So you can kiss god mode goodbye
    end of spoilers

    Re Doomsday, she was beaten the minute she lost her shield in the rubble, I know that smirk improvised by Gal Gadot tricked you into thinking Wonder Woman was just getting warmed up but now picture the scene without the smirk, as Snyder originally intended it...I'm just reading the scene

    He's on record saying Superman's the big cheese, surprise surprise. Superman's to the Justice League what Martin Fourcade's to the french biathlon team

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by username_ View Post
    spoilers:
    She was created to kill Ares specifically, she's not gonna vaporize Steppenwolf with a blast this god killing power now is she. What I'm told is that this power is harmless to most beings but lethal to Ares, just as kryptonite poisons Superman. So you can kiss god mode goodbye
    end of spoilers

    Re Doomsday, she was beaten the minute she lost her shield in the rubble, I know that smirk improvised by Gal Gadot tricked you into thinking Wonder Woman was just getting warmed up but now picture the scene without the smirk, as Snyder originally intended it...I'm just reading the scene

    He's on record saying Superman's the big cheese, surprise surprise. Superman's to the Justice League what Martin Fourcade's to the french biathlon team
    Geoff Johns, who will have more creative control than Snyder, has said Diana is just as strong and fast as Clark with better fighting skills.

    And the fight itself proves this, with Clark being completely inconsequential until he gets the spear, while Diana is actually damaging Doomsday.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Geoff Johns, who will have more creative control than Snyder, has said Diana is just as strong and fast as Clark with better fighting skills.

    And the fight itself proves this, with Clark being completely inconsequential until he gets the spear, while Diana is actually damaging Doomsday.
    And without the sword & shield, Wonder Woman would've been just as inconsequential, in fact probably more so

  13. #28
    Fantastic Member BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    I can take a guess but we have very little to go on.

    1. Diana is unaware of her powers at the beginning of the movie and has been raised like any other Amazon.

    2. Nazis invade Themyscira.

    3. Diana, Steve and some other Amazons are shown riding horses in one clip.

    My conclusion is that the shot of Diana riding down on the Nazis is a direct follow up to the Amazon/Steve ride through the woods. She is either new to or unaware of her leaping/flight/speed abilities and/or she's already *on* a horse riding with other people who don't have powers and is just doing what comes naturally for someone who has spent a lifetime training in the art of mounted combat.
    Doesn't make sense to me that she is unaware of her special abilities with respect to the other amazons. We were shown during a training sequence in one of the trailers her shockwave and thus making her different than the other amazons. You would think, if as they say, that in 5000 years she would have figured out that she was faster than a horse. Are we to assume that WW1 was her litmus test in which she all of a sudden gained all her bonus extra powers such as super strength and the like above the normal amazons? The logic seems really shaky here. I hope the movie explains this logically. I mean, to think she is 5000 years and doesn't realize until the last 100 her 'other' gifts/powers?

  14. #29
    Incredible Member richalex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiteTheBullet View Post
    Doesn't make sense to me that she is unaware of her special abilities with respect to the other amazons. We were shown during a training sequence in one of the trailers her shockwave and thus making her different than the other amazons. You would think, if as they say, that in 5000 years she would have figured out that she was faster than a horse. Are we to assume that WW1 was her litmus test in which she all of a sudden gained all her bonus extra powers such as super strength and the like above the normal amazons? The logic seems really shaky here. I hope the movie explains this logically. I mean, to think she is 5000 years and doesn't realize until the last 100 her 'other' gifts/powers?
    How exactly does time flow for an immortal? Especially one who is far younger than the others.
    Richard Alexander

  15. #30
    Fantastic Member enish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username_ View Post
    And without the sword & shield, Wonder Woman would've been just as inconsequential, in fact probably more so
    How can you tell? Do you have any footage to back this up? Any statements from DCEU officials? Because you seem to have overlooked a lot of our points of arguments which basically are more pertinent than mere assumptions of things that never happened.

    For all his power, Superman's punches left Doomsday unfazed. Diana tossed DD into the air with her shield, but that shield was under the force of her own physical strength. She tossed him into the air with one arm. One arm!

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