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  1. #1
    Incredible Member Lokimaru's Avatar
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    Default Elephant dancing a Gig in the corner and no one cares.

    Shouldn't Steve and Etta be Married if everything from pre-Flashpoint is Cannon/coming back. I mean how many reboots can one character take?


    Yes I know it was akin to Lois hooking up with Jimmy Olsen but that's the way it was. If your going to bring back the marriages bring them all back I say.

  2. #2
    Incredible Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Everything pre-Flashpoint isn't coming back, Rebirth Wonder Woman isn't Post Crisis Wonder Woman, she's her own unique incarnation. You can tell by all the changes to her origin in Year One, Etta Candy is African American and Steve Trevor is young again.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    No its clear that things aren't resorting to exactly the way they were pre Flashpoint. That would mean bringing back Diana Trevor, time traveling Wonder Hippolyta, Wonder Woman's invisible jet being in love with her, Amazons Attack and a whole slew of other crap nobody wants to see. Including this marriage.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    Everything pre-Flashpoint isn't coming back, Rebirth Wonder Woman isn't Post Crisis Wonder Woman, she's her own unique incarnation. You can tell by all the changes to her origin in Year One, Etta Candy is African American and Steve Trevor is young again.
    Well, she's mostly Post-Crisis Wonder Woman. And that's a good thing. We know that because of #17 where Rucka references a bunch of arcs and developments that were told in the Post-Crisis/Pre-Flashpoint DCU in the 90s and 00s, including Diana's time as an ambassador from Rucka's original run and her time as Goddess of Truth. And I suppose that they're not going to retell those story arcs and developments, the new origin notwithstanding.

    To me, what really matters is the continuity AFTER the origin, as even Marvel has dabbled in retelling of origins and the beginning years of characters. I mean, after all, Superman had his origin retold a whopping three to four times during the Post-Crisis era, but he never stopped being Post-Crisis Superman.
    Last edited by Zeeguy91; 03-18-2017 at 09:33 AM.
    Favorite Mythologies: Green Lantern, Batman (pre-Flashpoint), Spider-Man, The Fantastic Four, the Justice League/JLA (pre-Flashpoint)

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  5. #5
    Mighty Member sakuyamons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Well, she's mostly Post-Crisis Wonder Woman. And that's a good thing. We know that because of #17 where Rucka references a bunch of arcs and developments that were told in the Post-Crisis/Pre-Flashpoint DCU in the 90s and 00s, including Diana's time as an ambassador from Rucka's original run and her time as Goddess of Truth. And I suppose that they're not going to retell those story arcs and developments, the new origin notwithstanding.
    But, since all the n52 was a lie (good riddance imo) are the pre-flashpoints stories "fake" as well? because diana was able to go back to her island numerous times.

    To be honest Rucka's writing of Etta and Steve makes them way more likeable characters than what they were on Perez' book (still a fantastic run though). Especially Etta.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member hellacre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokimaru View Post
    Shouldn't Steve and Etta be Married if everything from pre-Flashpoint is Cannon/coming back. I mean how many reboots can one character take?


    Yes I know it was akin to Lois hooking up with Jimmy Olsen but that's the way it was. If your going to bring back the marriages bring them all back I say.
    This Etta was great. woo %^$# woo. Best line Gail Simone ever wrote in my mind. Etta needed some agency of her own and she got it ironically married to Steve. Rucka made sure Etta can't hook up with Steve now. I don't think new Etta been around long enough to compare.
    Last edited by hellacre; 03-18-2017 at 03:55 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakuyamons View Post
    But, since all the n52 was a lie (good riddance imo) are the pre-flashpoints stories "fake" as well? because diana was able to go back to her island numerous times.

    To be honest Rucka's writing of Etta and Steve makes them way more likeable characters than what they were on Perez' book (still a fantastic run though). Especially Etta.
    I don't know. Maybe. Maybe all the times Diana has ever been on Themsycira have been elaborate lies. But, the snake who references her "past identities" says that he "knows" he's "missing some." I think that might be reference to the "missing" 10 years that have been snatched from the timeline. So, maybe this means that the times she has been to Themyscira were part of those moments stolen from time that would end up being restored once Rebirth ends.
    Last edited by Zeeguy91; 03-18-2017 at 04:37 PM.
    Favorite Mythologies: Green Lantern, Batman (pre-Flashpoint), Spider-Man, The Fantastic Four, the Justice League/JLA (pre-Flashpoint)

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  8. #8
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    never mind
    Last edited by username_; 03-18-2017 at 06:04 PM.

  9. #9
    Mighty Member dumbduck's Avatar
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    I cared, this was obvious from the start. She's not 52 Diana, she's not post-crisis Diana. 'Love, hope and relationships'. How can a post-crisis Diana reconcile with a Steve that's not married to Etta? That was 25 years of publication. The Steve who was the son of Diana Trevor, who saved Phillipus and Menalippe? He was a valid character and Steve and Etta was a valid love story.

    Quote Originally Posted by hellacre View Post
    This Etta was great. woo %^$# woo. Best line Gail Simone ever wrote in my mind. Etta needed some agency of her own and she got it ironically married to Steve. Rucka made sure Etta can't hook up with Steve now. I don't think new Etta been around long enough to compare.
    She's not 52 DIana, she's not post-crisis Diana. She's Rucka's Diana. The arbitrariety of deleting 52 Diana from existing couldn't be clearer than this example. It's clear for me that we could have 52 Clark and Diana together. A needless waste.
    It's called... "Champion of the oppressed."

  10. #10
    Mighty Member sakuyamons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbduck View Post
    I cared, this was obvious from the start. She's not 52 Diana, she's not post-crisis Diana. 'Love, hope and relationships'. How can a post-crisis Diana reconcile with a Steve that's not married to Etta? That was 25 years of publication. The Steve who was the son of Diana Trevor, who saved Phillipus and Menalippe? He was a valid character and Steve and Etta was a valid love story.



    She's not 52 DIana, she's not post-crisis Diana. She's Rucka's Diana. The arbitrariety of deleting 52 Diana from existing couldn't be clearer than this example. It's clear for me that we could have 52 Clark and Diana together. A needless waste.
    To be honest, the marriage between Steve and Etta was (for me) a way to just clear the way to tease the SuperWonder in the 80s. And I could have easily lived without Etta being jealous/angered at Diana through all of the Perez run, though I don't really care about Steve, he was originally Diana's love interest and he's just being pushed to the spotlight again on Diana's supporting cast, and unlike Trevor Barnes or my boy Tom, Steve actually has a chance to stick around. Unlike post COIE when he was little more of an afterthought.

    Rucka's Diana is way more like the character she was supposed to be (when written correctly) than her n52 reincarnation, so for me Rebirth Diana is just post Crisis Diana with a few tweaks like having Steve as a boyfriend and having Barbara as her BFF.

  11. #11
    Mighty Member dumbduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakuyamons View Post
    To be honest, the marriage between Steve and Etta was (for me) a way to just clear the way to tease the SuperWonder in the 80s.
    Do you have any proof of that? I'll be honest and say that this possibility passed through my head, but unless Perez himself admits it, I have to call bull. Everything else is your own personal tastes and preferences.

    It also doesn't change the fact that deleting everything 52 was arbitrary and needless. The amazons could have used a little work, but Diana herself was great.
    It's called... "Champion of the oppressed."

  12. #12
    Mighty Member sakuyamons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbduck View Post
    Do you have any proof of that? I'll be honest and say that this possibility passed through my head, but unless Perez himself admits it, I have to call bull. Everything else is your own personal tastes and preferences.

    It also doesn't change the fact that deleting everything 52 was arbitrary and needless. The amazons could have used a little work, but Diana herself was great.
    Dark and Edgy Donna Troy who killed people was enough reason to retcon the whole n52 from existence, one of the worst things to come off the n52 alongside that Bar Torr mess and I'd happy if Abnett completely pretends it didn't happen on Titans (that and those awful Amazons), I personally didn't like n52 Wondy from the get go and with Finch it only got worse. I mean, the ending of the n52 WW was depressing, Superman got a more 'hopeful' ending and he freakin' died.

    But for me after COIE, Steve and Etta were just an afterthought on Diana's story besides the Diana Trevor thing (which I loved btw), I know Diana's cast is inconsistent as hell but for me Julia and Vanessa were way more relevant to Diana's storylines in the Perez run than Steve and Etta (I personally loathe jealously plots and that might be the reason why I was indifferent to Miss Candy till Gail came in), I might reread the run later to confirm this though.

    I liked n52 Clark well-enough and I kinda feel bad for you guys and I mean it, but I'll always be against Diana getting in relationships with her fellow Trinity members because I consider that some friendships have to stay as friendships, you could say the same about Steve/Diana and you'd right because I'm absolutely indifferent to it.

  13. #13
    Mighty Member dumbduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakuyamons View Post
    Dark and Edgy Donna Troy who killed people was enough reason to retcon the whole n52 from existence, one of the worst things to come off the n52
    I agree, completely (With Donna, not the retcon). Probably will make you even more horrified, there was a possibilty of her being Clark and Diana's child. She'd probably been better written, but would have caused even more of a backlash.

    alongside that Bar Torr mess and I'd happy if Abnett completely pretends it didn't happen on Titans (that and those awful Amazons), I personally didn't like n52 Wondy from the get go and with Finch it only got worse. I mean, the ending of the n52 WW was depressing, Superman got a more 'hopeful' ending and he freakin' died.
    Don't know about this Bar Torr. Yeah, I know all about the Finche's last arc. Hippolyta, Hera, Zeke... Both their endings were equaly bad.


    I liked n52 Clark well-enough and I kinda feel bad for you guys and I mean it, but I'll always be against Diana getting in relationships with her fellow Trinity members because I consider that some friendships have to stay as friendships, you could say the same about Steve/Diana and you'd right because I'm absolutely indifferent to it.
    Thanks. I disagree with this Trinity business, I find that these boundaries are arbitrary and change according to personal preferences. But that's besides the point. I don't even need a book, which could offend you or anyone else. I just wished for Clark and Diana to have been allowed a send-off as their own characters. Just something for us SMWW fans to hold on to, just to know that they are together out there.
    It's called... "Champion of the oppressed."

  14. #14
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbduck View Post
    I agree, completely (With Donna, not the retcon). Probably will make you even more horrified, there was a possibilty of her being Clark and Diana's child. She'd probably been better written, but would have caused even more of a backlash..
    This reminds me that Diana is the only member of the Trinity who doesn't have a sidekick that's their own, flesh-and-blood, child (Batman has Damian, Superman has Jon)...

  15. #15
    Mighty Member sakuyamons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    This reminds me that Diana is the only member of the Trinity who doesn't have a sidekick that's their own, flesh-and-blood, child (Batman has Damian, Superman has Jon)...
    Don't give DC ideas

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