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  1. #46
    Astonishing Member Knives's Avatar
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    It's not exactly something new for a story to work sometimes writers need to make the characters act like jerks or out of characterization otherwise the story does not follow the direction they want.

    That's why things like Clint kill Banner, Spider make a pact with a demon, Forge fall into an imbecile trick and tell Iso the weak point of his machine, BP after saying that he would not get into the war between X-mens and Avengers for not evolve Wakanda changes his opinion and hides the Avengers and a mutant prisoner in the city making Namor attack Wakanda or hide the bombs of Time Runs Out in Wakanda causing the city to be attacked by Thanos happen even not making sense.

    The same applies to MG to make the character relevant they need to show her being superior to others and for that they need to lower their intelligence points otherwise no one will believe that a little girl can overcome people like Reed, Tony, Beast, Forge or BP.

    Personally have nothing against MG is one of the few Inhumans for which feel sympathy.

  2. #47
    Incredible Member Baron of Faltine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaquar View Post
    This practice isn't new in comics, when a character has to be powered down or act out of character to make the new kid in town look strong. Plus Moon Girl is Great! my daughter likes her so shes ok in my book.
    Yeah, this is not a new trick, much like beating Wolverine or Hyperion(or an AU version of them) was pivotal in showing how good at fighting the "newbie" is. Once time they even gone the Conan the Barbarian route and just had them coming from a fnatays world furry lincloth and all. At least with Lunella they go for intellectual side...and an interesting twist is that this is possibly how she, a supersmart 9 years old, actually perceive the other peoples(kind of like Family Guy was theorized as the world seen through the eye of Stevie). Remeber she is super smart but also a young girl who KNOW she is super smart.
    In any case no need to fret. Just ignore it. After all I can ignore Gweenpool all right

  3. #48
    Incredible Member Doc Sonic's Avatar
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    This thread is terrible. I completely disagree with the OP and am perplexed as to how it is someone would feel inclined to make multiple threads railing against a comic. Don't like it, don't buy it; and shut up about it.
    As a child psychologists, I've gotten to know many youngster who are precociously intelligent and Reeder and Montclare's depiction of Lunella is pretty much right on the money. These are kids who know things on a cognitive level that they do not have the resources for yet to cope with in an emotional level. And their struggles with such matters can quite often look like bratty-ness and irritability. What might come off as annoying for older readers is likely to be quite relatable to younger readers.

  4. #49
    Incredible Member Baron of Faltine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knives View Post
    It's not exactly something new for a story to work sometimes writers need to make the characters act like jerks or out of characterization otherwise the story does not follow the direction they want.

    That's why things like Clint kill Banner, Spider make a pact with a demon, Forge fall into an imbecile trick and tell Iso the weak point of his machine, BP after saying that he would not get into the war between X-mens and Avengers for not evolve Wakanda changes his opinion and hides the Avengers and a mutant prisoner in the city making Namor attack Wakanda or hide the bombs of Time Runs Out in Wakanda causing the city to be attacked by Thanos happen even not making sense.

    The same applies to MG to make the character relevant they need to show her being superior to others and for that they need to lower their intelligence points otherwise no one will believe that a little girl can overcome people like Reed, Tony, Beast, Forge or BP.

    Personally have nothing against MG is one of the few Inhumans for which feel sympathy.
    Oh boy i completely forgot that BP orignally said he did not wanted to be involved in any of the other superheroes bull to prevent what eventually happened once he was involved. eh, is kind of funny. Not lol funny but quite funny.

    Also i would add that MG now is exacrtly in the SAME position as Reed Richards was. She is becoming less and less a character and more a living phlebotinum, someone super smart fo call out when you need. "in case of emergency break the glass and use the super smart person to solve the unsolvable problem". Is kind a risky position, loko at how Reed was used before Secret Wars. I am worried for MG.
    (on side note realzied how SW was ALOS a deconstruction of the above with all the super smart guy that usually always solve the problem being unable to solve the problem, a reallly trope breaking satire)

  5. #50
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    I liked her first issues, but I found her too Obnoxious and arrogant since she was deemed the most intelligent person in the world. But when she is depicted in other comics, she is ok (for the moment). She needs, like Valeria Richards with the future foundation and her parents, people who understand her and treat her like a child when she is making mistakes.
    Sorry for my english, not my first language.

  6. #51
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    I think part of the problem may be Marvel shifting to the tone of those Disney channel shows where all the adults are idiots and the kids are genius's.

  7. #52
    Incredible Member Doc Sonic's Avatar
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    I think part of the problem might be something else.
    if I was at my desktop I'd add a gif of Kenan Thompson from Saturday Night Live saying "you know why!"

  8. #53
    Veteran Member theoneandonly's Avatar
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    well I also found her to be a dexter lke character but that doesn't mean its terrible.just not written for older age groups. Also every character is going to act stupid or occ in guest appearances most of times as seen in gwenpool when deadpool gets caught up in the fantasy play of the murder word and doesn't stop to think that he doesn't have to play by arcades rules a character who always is thinking out of box and making his own rules but gwenpool has to point out this obvious thing for him.
    The Self is the only existing reality

  9. #54
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Sonic View Post
    This thread is terrible. I completely disagree with the OP and am perplexed as to how it is someone would feel inclined to make multiple threads railing against a comic. Don't like it, don't buy it; and shut up about it.
    As a child psychologists, I've gotten to know many youngster who are precociously intelligent and Reeder and Montclare's depiction of Lunella is pretty much right on the money. These are kids who know things on a cognitive level that they do not have the resources for yet to cope with in an emotional level. And their struggles with such matters can quite often look like bratty-ness and irritability. What might come off as annoying for older readers is likely to be quite relatable to younger readers.
    And there's the rub. Lunella should be (and is) relevant to younger readers. Her thing is being the smartest person on Earth. Cool. But when you have number one smartest and number, say eleven, butting heads, an actual contest is dull with details that escape most of us. It's like social chessplayers watching a grandmaster match. The better player wins usually (or draws) but how and why escape most people.

    Making the contest or comparison something that would be interesting to kids usually means making one opponent a jobber. It's not two eighty-fifth degree black belts observing each other looking for an opening, it's someone grabbing a folding chair and smashing their opponent over the head. If the contest of wits is to be accurately portrayed, your audience isn't able to appreciate it. And that goes for most adults as well as kids. Wicked smart beats not quite as wicked smart, but still pretty smart but smart beats stupid comes across a lot easier in a story.

  10. #55
    Mighty Member Ianbarreilles's Avatar
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    A big problem for me particularly is moon girl comes across as really unlikeable and in many ways she seems to have a massive ego problem and she's very condescending she's in my opinion honestly unbearable at least in her solo series she wasn't that bad in Ivx though but then having read stoppable wasp recently which she recently appeared in she came across yet again as really unlikeable and so egocentric.

  11. #56
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    I don't get how her intelligence offends people. There's nine year olds IRL who goto College.

  12. #57
    Incredible Member Doc Sonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    And there's the rub. Lunella should be (and is) relevant to younger readers. Her thing is being the smartest person on Earth. Cool. But when you have number one smartest and number, say eleven, butting heads, an actual contest is dull with details that escape most of us. It's like social chessplayers watching a grandmaster match. The better player wins usually (or draws) but how and why escape most people.
    Making the contest or comparison something that would be interesting to kids usually means making one opponent a jobber. It's not two eighty-fifth degree black belts observing each other looking for an opening, it's someone grabbing a folding chair and smashing their opponent over the head. If the contest of wits is to be accurately portrayed, your audience isn't able to appreciate it. And that goes for most adults as well as kids. Wicked smart beats not quite as wicked smart, but still pretty smart but smart beats stupid comes across a lot easier in a story.
    the only people actually interested in this whole ranking system is Cho and the fans. There have been crazy-smart child characters in genre literature for years. I fail to see how this is any different than the ultra-clever kids from the 'Series of Unfortunate Events' books... The one big difference being that Lunella is Black and her being the smartest of the smart defies the unconscious but nonetheless pervasive sentiment of racist intellectual superiority.

  13. #58
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Sonic View Post
    the only people actually interested in this whole ranking system is Cho and the fans. There have been crazy-smart child characters in genre literature for years. I fail to see how this is any different than the ultra-clever kids from the 'Series of Unfortunate Events' books... The one big difference being that Lunella is Black and her being the smartest of the smart defies the unconscious but nonetheless pervasive sentiment of racist intellectual superiority.
    That statement is a massive assumption. I'm a black comic book reader and even I dislike the concept of her being the smartest. Setting her as a genius is fine and honestly, I don't see a problem with it but when you set her as the smartest, it just feels like you're overcompensating for no real reason. Not only does it kinda feel like they're pandering to me by placing her at the top without any real development to even be within the list of smartest minds but it only makes her feel even more unrepeatable. Peter Parker is a character who's known to be a young genius and has done impressive feats over the years from his intelligence but he still isn't one of the top 10 smartest. He is however a character that readers alike can relate to and that's part of what makes him so timeless. A character can be known for their genius without having to be the best of the best especially when it doesn't feel earned and instead that you just made a fanfiction character canon. I stand by that making her the smartest person in the MU, especially after only being around for around a year was a bad idea that only makes the character feel more like a Mary Sue and less like someone who the reader can place themselves in the shoes of.

  14. #59
    Incredible Member Doc Sonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    That statement is a massive assumption. I'm a black comic book reader and even I dislike the concept of her being the smartest. Setting her as a genius is fine and honestly, I don't see a problem with it but when you set her as the smartest, it just feels like you're overcompensating for no real reason. Not only does it kinda feel like they're pandering to me by placing her at the top without any real development to even be within the list of smartest minds but it only makes her feel even more unrepeatable. Peter Parker is a character who's known to be a young genius and has done impressive feats over the years from his intelligence but he still isn't one of the top 10 smartest. He is however a character that readers alike can relate to and that's part of what makes him so timeless. A character can be known for their genius without having to be the best of the best especially when it doesn't feel earned and instead that you just made a fanfiction character canon. I stand by that making her the smartest person in the MU, especially after only being around for around a year was a bad idea that only makes the character feel more like a Mary Sue and less like someone who the reader can place themselves in the shoes of.
    I'll double-down with my assumptions and note that the term 'mary sue' is in and of itself a problematic sentiment, mired in a sexist ideology.
    For those who have actually read the 'World Smartest' storyline, the idea being 'smartest of the smart' is just an empty label is at the heart of the narrative. It's all about Lunella learning that intellect without wisdom is not enough and that what one does with their gifts is much more important than the gifts themselves.

  15. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Sonic View Post
    This thread is terrible. I completely disagree with the OP and am perplexed as to how it is someone would feel inclined to make multiple threads railing against a comic. Don't like it, don't buy it; and shut up about it.
    As a child psychologists, I've gotten to know many youngster who are precociously intelligent and Reeder and Montclare's depiction of Lunella is pretty much right on the money. These are kids who know things on a cognitive level that they do not have the resources for yet to cope with in an emotional level. And their struggles with such matters can quite often look like bratty-ness and irritability. What might come off as annoying for older readers is likely to be quite relatable to younger readers.
    That was pretty much my take, and I don't even like kids.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron of Faltine View Post
    Also i would add that MG now is exacrtly in the SAME position as Reed Richards was. She is becoming less and less a character and more a living phlebotinum, someone super smart fo call out when you need. "in case of emergency break the glass and use the super smart person to solve the unsolvable problem". Is kind a risky position, loko at how Reed was used before Secret Wars. I am worried for MG.
    I don't think I'd agree that that's happening to her. In IvX, an Inhumans-focused event, she did help Forge make some improvements to a machine he designed. But it made perfect sense for her to be there. Monsters Unleashed had her figure out a way to understand what the monsters were saying, but her bigger role was actually to provide moral support to Kei. Plus, it's an event about monsters so it makes sense to include Devil Dinosaur, which means it makes sense to use Lunella. And she's had very few other appearances outside her own title. A couple issues of Unstoppable Wasp, where Lunella wasn't actually the one solving anything. An X-Men Annual, where Forge worked on a rocket with her. A single-panel cameo in the first issue of Champions. That's basically it. And of course, she'll be in Secret Warriors, but since it's an ensemble book, one she shares with the immensely popular Ms. Marvel, it's safe to assume Lunella won't be solving every problem there, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ianbarreilles View Post
    A big problem for me particularly is moon girl comes across as really unlikeable and in many ways she seems to have a massive ego problem and she's very condescending she's in my opinion honestly unbearable at least in her solo series she wasn't that bad in Ivx though but then having read stoppable wasp recently which she recently appeared in she came across yet again as really unlikeable and so egocentric.
    She's a 9-year-old girl whose intelligence has always made her feel isolated from others, but who's finally getting validation. Of course she has an ego problem right now. I think it's safe to assume that the creative team has plans about that.

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