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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by VolcanikTiger86 View Post
    To be honest I don't get the book, not sure if I should but I do point out that hating new characters or young characters who the writers have decided be smarter than original is annoying that includes Lunella, Riri Williams, Valeria Richards and more than likely Nadia Pym.
    Honestly my issue with writers doing that is that, it seems to be an increasing trend with new characters/characters new to a role as of late without them feeling like they've earned it. Riri built a basic Iron Man suit and was declared smarter than Tony, Cho was the Hulk for like 5 minutes and Bruce declared him better suited as the Hulk than him, for some reason Marvel keeps pushing Kate Bishop in hyperbole as a better Hawkeye despite them seeming to be on relatively the same level, Miles (who was 13 at the time), was Spider-Man for maybe a few months when essentially all of Peter's cast was giving him their blessing and even Cap allowed him to be part of the Ultimates for a short time when he was prepared to bench Peter for being too young. It just becomes a bit of an annoying trend that a character can't be a hero in their own right, they have to be better than the hero who's role they're in no matter how new they are to said role. Comics are a show don't tell industry yet they constantly want to tell us these things early on but not develop it naturally.

  2. #137
    Mighty Member Coin Biter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyroTwilight View Post
    Last I heard her sales are actually somewhat strong (in Scholastic for example which is where she's a big hit seemingly) just not in the direct market, thus it appear to be low.
    Roald Dahl knew the score. This is him in conversation with Kingsley Amis, as reported in Amis' memoirs:

    He was shaking his head again. “What you want to do,” he said, “is write a children’s book. That’s where the money is today, believe me…”

    “I wouldn’t know how to set about it.”

    “Do you know what my advance was on my last one?” When he found I did not, in fact had no idea, he told me. It certainly sounded like a large sum.

    “I couldn’t do it,” I told him again. “I don’t think I enjoyed children’s books much when I was a child myself. I’ve got no feeling for that kind of thing.”

    “Never mind, the little b*******’d swallow it.”
    (Although that's the bit everyone quotes, it's fair to say though that Dahl later apparently went on to remark that "if you do decide to have a crack, let me give you one warning. Unless you put everything you've got into it, unless you write it from the heart, the kids'll have no use for it.")
    Last edited by Coin Biter; 03-20-2017 at 02:29 PM.

  3. #138
    Mighty Member Coin Biter's Avatar
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    So far as Moon Girl is concerned, personally I didn't find that preview either infuriating or entertaining. My only reaction is of complete indifference But she's not for me, I'm not the audience; she doesn't bother me.

    That said, it does seem wrong to have a go at posters disliking a character. It's a shared universe, after all. There are always going to be characters people dislike. Hell, you can dislike most of them. You can dislike nearly all of them, and wait for the appearance of the only character you do like, Pip the Troll. Who are we to judge?

    Disliking a character can be seen as a compliment to a character, even. It's better than indifference.
    Last edited by Coin Biter; 03-20-2017 at 02:40 PM. Reason: Thought better of last couple of sentences

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    It's one of the most unfortunate things when it comes to characters of color/female/LGBT characters. Without even knowing the person on the other end, if they dare to have their own criticisms about the character then they're labeled as racist/sexist/homophobic. While there will always be those who do fall into that category, 9/10 times it's a matter of the poster's own criticism of what they dislike about the character not a prejudice.
    You know why that happens?

    Because the main ones complaining have not READ the book. They saw one preview or a poster and that was more than enough to go off. All we have seen is nonstop backlash towards those books and Inhumans.

    Folk yell and scream why does she still have a book? It doesn't sell. We need to boycott this book!

    That is not criticism-it's straight up TROLLING.


    The worst thing about this thread is CIS hetero white male posters repeatedly accusing racism and sexism in some grasping defense of this frankly awful character. So incredibly disingenuous.
    Really if she is so awful why are you posting here? A point Redjack has made NONSTOP. This is why folks get upset-if you don't like it don't read it. We have way too many folks ready to line up and trash Moon Girl than talk about books that they like.

    Then we wonder why Vision or Scarlet Witch gets axed. Nobody can talk about their books because it would get buried in the legion of HATE posts for POC/certain females/LGBT/Inhuman.

    Marvel keeps doing what they are doing because it gets them attention and LOL looking good because at least they tried. While comic book fans look bad.

    The less trolling and more civil criticism-might get Marvel to fix all this to where everyone is content.


    17 issues-this is the LONGEST run for Devil Dino. His last run was 40+ years ago and 9 issues. After that it was another 10 years before you saw him in a comic. After 1987 he popped in and out until some animated spots in 2009. I guess everyone forgets that.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    You know why that happens?

    Because the main ones complaining have not READ the book. They saw one preview or a poster and that was more than enough to go off. All we have seen is nonstop backlash towards those books and Inhumans.

    Folk yell and scream why does she still have a book? It doesn't sell. We need to boycott this book!

    That is not criticism-it's straight up TROLLING.
    If you believe that that is trolling, then you don't know what trolling really is. When it comes to people looking at a book and questioning why it still continues to be a thing despite low sales, that is a legitimate criticism and I can see how that can feel like an annoyance for some people. Books that they cared about, that they enjoyed have been canceled for selling higher numbers than some of these books do and much sooner at that yet a book these books that generally don't sell too well get to continue and even be influential? That feels like an honest slap in the face from the industry for some readers. And at no point is it alright to basically say that a reader is prejudice against a character for their race, gender or sexuality even if they don't read the book. Everyone has a reason why a character either resonates with them or doesn't and they have a right to express it. I'm not a fan of people who still condemn Spider-Man for OMD in spite of the developments he's been through since then but I'm not gonna condemn them simply because they dislike what I do.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    If you believe that that is trolling, then you don't know what trolling really is. When it comes to people looking at a book and questioning why it still continues to be a thing despite low sales, that is a legitimate criticism and I can see how that can feel like an annoyance for some people. Books that they cared about, that they enjoyed have been canceled for selling higher numbers than some of these books do and much sooner at that yet a book these books that generally don't sell too well get to continue and even be influential?That feels like an honest slap in the face from the industry for some readers. And at no point is it alright to basically say that a reader is prejudice against a character for their race, gender or sexuality even if they don't read the book. Everyone has a reason why a character either resonates with them or doesn't and they have a right to express it. I'm not a fan of people who still condemn Spider-Man for OMD in spite of the developments he's been through since then but I'm not gonna condemn them simply because they dislike what I do.

    Not true, because without reading, the person's entire opinion is based on face value first impressions with little to no knowledge of the actual content within said project. This situation is extremely common with dealing with anything minority basis, rather it's with POC's, women, LGBT, etc. That's not to say that non-minorities do not receive the same treatment, but their treatment is much less and on a case by case scenario in comparison to minority characters that continues to get slandered without fair assessment. So yes, it makes quite a bit of sense to assume that person is prejudice, seeing as the person who's attacking the book is prejudice in not even knowing about the character, not reading about the character, yet attacking that character. You're essentially asking people to not to do to the posters, what the posters are doing to the characters. It's essentially a full on circle. It's like how people say racist things, but then get upset that people attack them for saying racist things. Saying we should be tolerant towards your intolerance. The world doesn't work that way.
    Last edited by leo619; 03-20-2017 at 03:36 PM.

  7. #142
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    Yeah, I agree with that.

    Reminds me of when Kamala was only just announced. So the ONLY thing we knew was she was going to be a new heroine codenamed Ms. Marvel who was a Muslim American with family from Pakistan. The amount of people who were going "I dunno. There's just SOMETHING I don't like about her. I don't know WHAT." definitely raised eyebrows.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyroTwilight View Post
    Yeah, I agree with that.

    Reminds me of when Kamala was only just announced. So the ONLY thing we knew was she was going to be a new heroine codenamed Ms. Marvel who was a Muslim American with family from Pakistan. The amount of people who were going "I dunno. There's just SOMETHING I don't like about her. I don't know WHAT." definitely raised eyebrows.
    Exactly, and then people assume their opinions is just their own, as in societal values and embedded society bigotry hasn't influence their opinions in any way shape or form. We all already know by now that Nurture is just as, if not more important than Nature. So of course people's opinions is inherit ably bias by our environment's conditioning on how we view and see different people. That's not to say you can't break out of that societal infrastructure, but we've already see we have a long way to go by with what's going on with society today.

  9. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    If you believe that that is trolling, then you don't know what trolling really is. When it comes to people looking at a book and questioning why it still continues to be a thing despite low sales, that is a legitimate criticism and I can see how that can feel like an annoyance for some people. Books that they cared about, that they enjoyed have been canceled for selling higher numbers than some of these books do and much sooner at that yet a book these books that generally don't sell too well get to continue and even be influential? That feels like an honest slap in the face from the industry for some readers. And at no point is it alright to basically say that a reader is prejudice against a character for their race, gender or sexuality even if they don't read the book. Everyone has a reason why a character either resonates with them or doesn't and they have a right to express it. I'm not a fan of people who still condemn Spider-Man for OMD in spite of the developments he's been through since then but I'm not gonna condemn them simply because they dislike what I do.
    The fact that people continue to make this same complaint, no matter how often it's pointed out that it does well outside Diamond's distribution, says a lot, I think. If Marvel were putting out an all-ages Spider-Man title (with Peter as the lead), and it had low distribution through Diamond, I'm doubtful there'd be anywhere near as many people asking why it's still being published.

    But the people asking the question don't actually want an answer to why Moon Girl is still being published. They don't care if it does well through other channels. They want the book to not exist. They want it to be cancelled, so they point to the Diamond numbers, and use it as the be-all end-all proof that no one's reading the book and it should be cancelled. And if any facts are presented that contradict their position, if it's pointed out how it does well in other markets, the people will ignore that, and they'll go right back to asking why it hasn't been cancelled even though its Diamond numbers are low. And they'll never call for a book with a Straight White Male lead to be cancelled, even if its numbers are low.

  10. #145
    Mighty Member theoneandonly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Fist View Post
    Being OP doesn't make you a mary sue.

    Having the solution to all problems, even ones you couldn't know about however, does. And that's Batman to a T.
    well If that's your refutation then that's Batman's power or you could say talent. it makes him no more of a Mary sue than black bolt. I can admit batman may be considered such a character but by that definition you can also say reed Richards and black bolt both fall into that category.
    The Self is the only existing reality

  11. #146
    Mighty Member NexusTenebrare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    And they'll never call for a book with a Straight White Male lead to be cancelled, even if its numbers are low.
    Oh yeah, totally. No one at all complained about Solo's 'ongoing'. No one at all questioned its existence. Or Foolkiller's. Nope. No one wanted those books to not happen, because we all mindlessly support books starring straight white males and the only reason someone might have a problem with a book is if it starred a non-straight non-white non-male.
    /sarcasm

    This is exactly the kind of attitude Kurolegacy was talking about.
    #EmmaWasRight

  12. #147
    Mighty Member theoneandonly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDM View Post
    The worst thing about this thread is CIS hetero white male posters repeatedly accusing racism and sexism in some grasping defense of this frankly awful character. So incredibly disingenuous.
    well that's just a dumb assumption to make. just because you don't like a character doesn't mean others shoudn't like it and vice versa. Its obvious that those who are defending her are doing so because they like a character who is relatable to children not anything else and those who don't like her are doing so because they are not liking her personality and she being the most intelligent which is what jean and Betty are facing in x forums. If you don't like it dont buy it as redjack said but frankly no one asked you or anybody whether the character is awful or not. Tastes differ. I myself do not like the character but that doesn't make her an awful character.
    Last edited by theoneandonly; 03-21-2017 at 12:16 AM.
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  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    If you believe that that is trolling, then you don't know what trolling really is. When it comes to people looking at a book and questioning why it still continues to be a thing despite low sales, that is a legitimate criticism and I can see how that can feel like an annoyance for some people. Books that they cared about, that they enjoyed have been canceled for selling higher numbers than some of these books do and much sooner at that yet a book these books that generally don't sell too well get to continue and even be influential? That feels like an honest slap in the face from the industry for some readers. And at no point is it alright to basically say that a reader is prejudice against a character for their race, gender or sexuality even if they don't read the book. Everyone has a reason why a character either resonates with them or doesn't and they have a right to express it. I'm not a fan of people who still condemn Spider-Man for OMD in spite of the developments he's been through since then but I'm not gonna condemn them simply because they dislike what I do.
    Different titles have different thresholds for success. Marvel ( DC) expects a Spider-Man monthly with Alex Ross covers and Grant Morrison script to do different numbers than a Tigra revamp by an indie artist. And Marvel (DC) have shown it's worth their while to publish certain titles that do poorly on the stands because they actually do well in trade, digitally, or other secondary markets. They aren't publishing these comics to slap anyone the face, it's because the think they can make a profit one way or another.

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    Different titles have different thresholds for success. Marvel ( DC) expects a Spider-Man monthly with Alex Ross covers and Grant Morrison script to do different numbers than a Tigra revamp by an indie artist. And Marvel (DC) have shown it's worth their while to publish certain titles that do poorly on the stands because they actually do well in trade, digitally, or other secondary markets. They aren't publishing these comics to slap anyone the face, it's because the think they can make a profit one way or another.
    Not only that, but if Marvel wishes to publish a specific title merely because they freaking want to...that's well within their rights as a business.

  15. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by NexusTenebrare View Post
    Oh yeah, totally. No one at all complained about Solo's 'ongoing'. No one at all questioned its existence. Or Foolkiller's. Nope. No one wanted those books to not happen, because we all mindlessly support books starring straight white males and the only reason someone might have a problem with a book is if it starred a non-straight non-white non-male.
    /sarcasm

    This is exactly the kind of attitude Kurolegacy was talking about.
    People made some jokes about the Solo and Foolkiller books. But they didn't get even a fraction of the hate that Moon Girl's gotten. Solo and Foolkiller were mostly just ignored, they didn't get thread after thread after thread after thread bitching about them.

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