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  1. #1
    Veteran Member FishyZombie's Avatar
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    Default What should be done with Tim Drake when he gets back?

    The new 52 has not been kind to Tim Drake, nor was DcYou or rebirth. Many feel that the reboot changes made him an inferior character to his pre-flashpoint self that reinvigorated the Robin concept when he was introduced. I think a lot of that can be fixed with good writing and a little help from retcons. A more diffilcult thing to fix is what makes him stand out among the other ex-sidekicks in 2017? One thing the New 52 had the right idea is that all the Robins had their own niche. Nightwing had the solo hero thing covered, Jason doing his anti-hero stuff with Roy and Kori, Tim lead the titans and Damian was his Dad's sidekick. Now I'm not sure where he would fit in. Red Robin as a solo hero became redundant as soon as Dick went back to Nightwing. Tim's N52 time as leader of the Titans tanked hard and now Damian is the TT Robin. Other popular Tim qualities like his friendship with Kon/Superboy and brotherly relationship with Dick Grayson. Now Damian is Nightwing's go-to little brother and has his own Superboy to be buddies/frienemies with in Jon. And that is not even getting started on the whole Duke thing. It probably wouldn't be so bad if Tim's transition away from Robin had been as successful as Dick or Jason. I mean I don't like "Lark," but at least it's better than "Red Robin"and his current costume is literally just a Robin suit with 2 Rs (almost symbolizing how he's not moved on from the role despite having passed it to Damian years ago).
    So that brings up the question as of what to do with the character going forward? Drop Red Robin entirely, it sucks. Put more focus on distinguishing qualities besides being slightly smarter than everyone, Tim should probably be the relatable Robin, so making him cold and detached isn't the right way to go. Re-establish that he was Robin and has at least one living parent. I think risk taking is necessary to make him more than Nightwing-lite. Personally I think Tim needs his own "Grayson," maybe make him a private eye for a while, see if that works. A Young Justice Rebirth could also be nice. Also here is a controversial one, give him a new hair and eye color, why should every Robin have black hair and blue eyes? Visual distinctiveness is important too.
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  2. #2
    Veteran Member unclepulky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishyZombie View Post
    The new 52 has not been kind to Tim Drake, nor was DcYou or rebirth. Many feel that the reboot changes made him an inferior character to his pre-flashpoint self that reinvigorated the Robin concept when he was introduced. I think a lot of that can be fixed with good writing and a little help from retcons. A more diffilcult thing to fix is what makes him stand out among the other ex-sidekicks in 2017? One thing the New 52 had the right idea is that all the Robins had their own niche. Nightwing had the solo hero thing covered, Jason doing his anti-hero stuff with Roy and Kori, Tim lead the titans and Damian was his Dad's sidekick. Now I'm not sure where he would fit in. Red Robin as a solo hero became redundant as soon as Dick went back to Nightwing. Tim's N52 time as leader of the Titans tanked hard and now Damian is the TT Robin. Other popular Tim qualities like his friendship with Kon/Superboy and brotherly relationship with Dick Grayson. Now Damian is Nightwing's go-to little brother and has his own Superboy to be buddies/frienemies with in Jon. And that is not even getting started on the whole Duke thing. It probably wouldn't be so bad if Tim's transition away from Robin had been as successful as Dick or Jason. I mean I don't like "Lark," but at least it's better than "Red Robin"and his current costume is literally just a Robin suit with 2 Rs (almost symbolizing how he's not moved on from the role despite having passed it to Damian years ago).
    So that brings up the question as of what to do with the character going forward? Drop Red Robin entirely, it sucks. Put more focus on distinguishing qualities besides being slightly smarter than everyone, Tim should probably be the relatable Robin, so making him cold and detached isn't the right way to go. Re-establish that he was Robin and has at least one living parent. I think risk taking is necessary to make him more than Nightwing-lite. Personally I think Tim needs his own "Grayson," maybe make him a private eye for a while, see if that works. A Young Justice Rebirth could also be nice. Also here is a controversial one, give him a new hair and eye color, why should every Robin have black hair and blue eyes? Visual distinctiveness is important too.
    It's really not that complicated.

    1. Just revamp the Red Robin solo book. Jason barely qualifies as an anti-hero anymore, so it's not like we can't have more than one Robin with a solo book.

    2. Give give Tim back his Pre-Flashpoint personality, maybe a mix of the Red Robin era and Dixon era personas.

    3. Have him be on Young Justice Rebirth as Cassie's second in command.

    Oh, and for visual distinctiveness, TIM isn't the one who should change. Dick and Damian are the ones who aren't fully white, and they should be drawn as such.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member FishyZombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post


    Oh, and for visual distinctiveness, TIM isn't the one who should change. Dick and Damian are the ones who aren't fully white, and they should be drawn as such.
    Dick has seniority, so he shouldn't have to change to fit everyone else. Damian is Bruce's biological son, so it's less contrived that he resemble his father. Also I never bought the Al Ghuls as asians when they've always been drawn as white. Unless the people working for dc have never met an actual asian person before. If they ever commit to them being asian, then I will agree with you. Also Jason should go back to being a redhead or having a white streak in his hair or something.
    And I don't see what sets "Red Robin" from Nightwing premise wise. Red Hood and the Outlaws is a different enough premise from the average Nightwing comic between the anti-hero stuff + the team dynamics.
    Last edited by FishyZombie; 03-18-2017 at 09:47 PM.
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  4. #4
    Veteran Member unclepulky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishyZombie View Post
    Dick has seniority, so he shouldn't have to change to fit everyone else. Damian is Bruce's biological son, so it's less contrived that he resemble his father. Also I never bought the Al Ghuls as asians when they've always been drawn as white. Unless the people working for dc have never met an actual asian person before. If they ever commit to them being asian, then I will agree with you. Also Jason should go back to being a redhead or having a white streak in his hair or something.
    And I don't see what sets "Red Robin" from Nightwing premise wise. Red Hood and the Outlaws is a different enough premise from the average Nightwing comic between the anti-hero stuff + the team dynamics.
    Seneority means nothing. THEY gave Dick not white heritage, and he should be drawn as such. And there have been plenty of books where the Al Ghuls have been drawn as Asian.

    I agree that Jason should go back to being a red head.

    What exactly is your problem with two books having a solo hero? Dick and Tim have completely different personalities, and it's not like there aren't any other books about solo heroes protecting a city. Hell, if you think that's too standard, send Tim on another globetrotting quest, maybe accompanied by Cass and Steph since they'll need to go somewhere once the 'Tec team book dynamic ends.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member FishyZombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    And there have been plenty of books where the Al Ghuls have been drawn as Asian
    if there are, I haven't seen em. At best they give them a tan.
    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    What exactly is your problem with two books having a solo hero? Dick and Tim have completely different personalities, and it's not like there aren't any other books about solo heroes protecting a city.
    For me, Tim would still need some kind of a hook. "Nightwing but slightly smarter and less charismatic" isn't much of one.
    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    Hell, if you think that's too standard, send Tim on another globetrotting quest, maybe accompanied by Cass and Steph since they'll need to go somewhere once the 'Tec team book dynamic ends.
    now there's an idea, I'd read that.
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  6. #6
    Mind Controller Arnoldoaad's Avatar
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    #1 new suit
    #2 new solo book, NOT A TEAM BOOK

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Atlanta96's Avatar
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    From a commercial standpoint he needs a new identity and more exposure. They're probably going to give him a big role in Rebirth which is good, it would be nice if Tom King used him in the main Batman book as well. Turning him into the new Nite Owl would reinvigorate his character after New 52, and would be a better launchpad for a solo book than another Red Robin series. Then there's Young Justice which is already being discussed.

    In terms of character, I already mentioned he could be the new Nite Owl. It plays into his technical skills and his dorky, introverted personality. Giving his character a better direction is a bit more tricky. Putting him on a revamped Young Justice would help, but right now I can't think of any great ideas for Tim that would elevate him beyond just another former Robin. Maybe after his role in Rebirth has wrapped up there will be more options.

    Also, get rid of Duke. That would certainly help.
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  8. #8
    Blind Bastard Orujo-man's Avatar
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    New solo book. If I could choose, I would like to see him in a series that focuses on his detective skills. He's the second best detective in the world, so follow that aproach to him. Traveling around the world, or in another big city.

    Or bringing back him to Detective comics, ocuping Kate's place as the leader, with Cass and Steph again. Remove the rest of characters like Azrael, Clayface and Luke and focused only in those three to develop them better. And put them, like the name of the series, in detective stories.

    Put him in another pseudo-Teen Titan book fells to redundant, with Dick's Titans and Damian's Teen Titans.

    Luke and Azrael can work together as an strange couple in another book. Or even be a recurrents characters in Kate's book. Put the three of them, if you think how different are their views, it's a very interesting idea.
    Last edited by Orujo-man; 03-19-2017 at 01:07 AM.

  9. #9
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    I think they should put him back on Tec and give him a solo.

    Quote Originally Posted by FishyZombie View Post
    DAlso Jason should go back to being a redhead or having a white streak in his hair or something.
    They could bring back the white streak and maybe the green eyes from the movie (or add a few scars), but the Red Hair doesn't look good on him, and and comes from one of the worst comics with him.

  10. #10
    Blind Bastard Orujo-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    I think they should put him back on Tec and give him a solo.

    They could bring back the white streak and maybe the green eyes from the movie (or add a few scars), but the Red Hair doesn't look good on him, and and comes from one of the worst comics with him.
    No please, no red hair to Jason. Green eyes rules, all know that.

  11. #11
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    Btw. I think that in the Bat-Burger scene it looked as Jason has darker skin than Dick and Damian

  12. #12
    Blind Bastard Orujo-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Btw. I think that in the Bat-Burger scene it looked as Jason has darker skin than Dick and Damian
    That's because he took much sun in the Caribbean in the first series of RHATO.
    Last edited by Orujo-man; 03-19-2017 at 01:34 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishyZombie View Post
    So that brings up the question as of what to do with the character going forward? Drop Red Robin entirely, it sucks. Put more focus on distinguishing qualities besides being slightly smarter than everyone, Tim should probably be the relatable Robin, so making him cold and detached isn't the right way to go.
    If they keep his current characterisation as the tech genius (and taking his time as Batman beyond into account) making him Batwing would be kind of a logical progression (in universe), but since that a mantle for black characters, thats probably a bad idea.

    The other option I see would be to put him (maybe together with Steph and Harper) in collage, and go for the classic student by day, superhero by night direction, since thats not really done by any other DC series at the moment.

  14. #14
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    He should retire from being a superhero and open up a detective office with detective chimp.

  15. #15
    Senior Member ayanestar's Avatar
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    Well first of all Dick isn't even full Romani, also it isn't a big part of his character plus even if he was full Romani it doesn't mean he can't be "white". Jason can't suddenly switch his hair color I doubt his fans would approve. Additionally it's not like it was a problem before Rebirth or even before New 52. People know they all Robins look the same most of them however are interested in the costume and a good written story. Tim's problem is way bigger than his looks although he needs a new costume. Almost no one cares about him beside his fans nowadays. He needs to be introduced again like Steph back in the days. Let him appear in other Bat books, give him a supporting role in Batman and take it slow. Tim has the same problem as Dick in the New 52 - he has almost no connections. That's why they need to fix his position in the Batfamily first, followed by his friends and when it's time let him lead a team again and give him a solo. It will give the writers more than enough time to fix his personality. Tec' was doing some of it I think but I dropped the book apparently he is dead now or smth so yeah still a lot of work left.

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