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  1. #1
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    Default Just how and why Marvel decided to turn Rictor and Iceman bisexual/homosexual?

    Because I always thought it out-of-left-field that two male characters who were distinctly shown as having been expressly heterosexual were suddenly revealed to be in the closet all these years, as opposed to male characters who were either always intended to be LGBT (Northstar, Anole, Greymalkin, Morph 2, Vivisector, arguably Phat) from the start or were "blank slates" so to speak (Shatterstar).

    Just what was the criteria for selection?

    Was it their having either A) too few (Rictor only ever had Rahne) or B) too many (Iceman's many girlfriends as seen in Astonishing Xmen) heterosexual relationships with females? Was it because those relationships ever ended at all, which is why they were seen as suspicious ("beards" i.e. decoys, experimentation) ?

    But a lot of other male Marvel characters, even in the Xbooks, who are still not yet outed as LGBT also have the same traits. And ALL heterosexual relationships in Marvel (as well as generally in modern First World life) NEVER really last (Marvel is not Disney after all where the first girl a guy hooks up with is almost always his OTP). Does this mean that they are all potentially LGBT as well?

    Was it having their having too flamboyant a fashion sense? Arguably, this could apply with Rictor, but Iceman's "non-Ice" costumes have always been rather generic superhero-spandex style.

    And again, a lot of other male Marvel characters, even in the Xbooks, who are still not yet outed as LGBT also have the same traits. Does this mean that they are all potentially LGBT as well?

    Was it their having particularly close friendships with both other males and females (platonic), such as Rictor with Shatterstar and BoomBoom and Iceman with the rest of the original pre-Krakoa seven, as well as Rogue and maybe Storm?

    And again, a lot of other male Marvel characters, even in the Xbooks, who are still not yet outed as LGBT also have the same traits. Does this mean that they are all potentially LGBT as well?
    Last edited by Jdsm24; 04-18-2017 at 05:08 AM.

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Man of Sin's Avatar
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    Because Iceman is lame and Bendis thought making him gay would make him relevant. Oh and to make his run memorable.
    Last edited by Man of Sin; 04-18-2017 at 02:03 AM.
    "Did you know that half of the teens in America are virgins? Not because they haven't the right person, but they haven't found the right teacher. " ~ Arsenio Hall

  3. #3
    That's what makes it fun! Ricochet Rita's Avatar
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    Regarding Iceman, I don't know why him. Fact is, it goes back a long way. He was the one, among The (male) New Defenders, who fell in love with Cloud...in 1984!



    He didn't know then that he/she was, um, intersexual or whatever. Anyway, it was a curious (and very interesting, IMO) story.

  4. #4
    Incredible Member nightbird's Avatar
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    Beta male with small fanbase and little to no interesting history in comic books?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightbird View Post
    Beta male with small fanbase and little to no interesting history in comic books?
    But Rictor and Iceman are both A-listers!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Sin View Post
    Because Iceman is lame and Bendis thought making him gay would make him relevant. Oh and to make his run memorable.
    This basically.

  7. #7
    Incredible Member nightbird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdsm24 View Post
    But Rictor and Iceman are both A-listers!
    Nah, they both B-listers in X-Men comics.

  8. #8
    Mighty Member MasterOfMagnetism's Avatar
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    I saw that other thread about Iceman and was shocked there was no anti-gay ranting. I knew it wouldn't be long before people started complaining again.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightbird View Post
    Nah, they both B-listers in X-Men comics.
    Even if they are already iconic enough to be recognizable to casual fans and non-readers?

    Btw, I'm not complaining, I'm just shocked and confused by the arbitrary randomness of it all. After all, if those two long-timers can be retconned to be queer, then does this mean that others just like them can be retconned to be queer too? (I don't want to cite specific names so as not to give Marvel any ideas )
    Last edited by Jdsm24; 04-18-2017 at 05:15 AM.

  10. #10
    Incredible Member nightbird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdsm24 View Post
    Even if they are already iconic enough to be recognizable to casual fans and non-readers?
    You can say that about Iceman, yeah (not Rictor), but he has like nothing going on about him in comics.
    To me A-listers in X-Men books should have whole package. Recognition, fanbase, relevancy, etc.

  11. #11
    Spectacular Member Proto's Avatar
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    So are gay characters only "valid" if they've been gay since they were created or what? This whole "retconning" of sexualities doesn't really hold water. Are late in life gays retconning their history because they suddenly they're not straight??

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proto View Post
    So are gay characters only "valid" if they've been gay since they were created or what? This whole "retconning" of sexualities doesn't really hold water. Are late in life gays retconning their history because they suddenly they're not straight??
    We've been inside their minds and privy to their thoughts , at least with Iceman (Rictor admittedly was a different story as seen in Xforce Vol.1 No. 44 from May 1995 when he leaves the team because he refuses to let Cable use telepathy on him --- hey, was that where they got the idea to make him closeted?). Can a gay be so repressed that he does not even admit or exhibit any attraction to other males even within the privacy of his own mind but instead shows the opposite? And remember, this is not a sudden evolution of sexuality like with Dean Pelton's "furry" awakening in Community, Bendis says that Iceman always knew he was gay but deliberately kept it on the down low.

  13. #13
    Fantastic Member DavidMunroe's Avatar
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    Additionally, gay people IRL are not being written by a collection of comic book writers so it's a false equivalence. I've never understood the logic behind stringently equating what happens IRL, where's there's more nuance (to a degree), to what happens in a comic book, where writers like Bendis can do the most nonsensical things to characters with haphazard explanations and get away with it--no nuance included.
    Telling you the truth.

  14. #14
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    The thing is ... the gay people in your life won't all be introduced as gay, too. I have friends who found out that the new gay, bisexual or even transgender person in their lives was one of their parents.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdsm24 View Post
    We've been inside their minds and privy to their thoughts , at least with Iceman (Rictor admittedly was a different story as seen in Xforce Vol.1 No. 44 from May 1995 when he leaves the team because he refuses to let Cable use telepathy on him --- hey, was that where they got the idea to make him closeted?). Can a gay be so repressed that he does not even admit or exhibit any attraction to other males even within the privacy of his own mind but instead shows the opposite?
    Yup:

    http://elitedaily.com/news/world/hom...orn-surprised/

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