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  1. #136
    Unapologetically Queer jeanvaljean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juggs View Post
    That is true in RL but more towards comics if done right and talking about comics not RL should be ways of showing it and also bring it out in a way everyone can say "Oh I kind of notice."
    So you are saying RL is not "done right."

  2. #137
    Unapologetically Queer jeanvaljean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juggs View Post
    Isn't he is popular.
    He is is. He is not being being.

  3. #138
    Unapologetically Queer jeanvaljean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judicata View Post
    You have a friend that had a transgender parent and they never suspected? hmm wow, I live in San Francisco and that's even a trip for me to think of
    How do you think Caitlyn Jenner's kids feel? People transitioning after having had kids isn't that rare.

  4. #139
    Ultimate Member
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    I'm almost 40 and I've never met a transgendered person that I'm aware of and no I don't avoid anybody and have only known one gay person that was out and all, so whether something is rare or not could be viewed as being relative in some respects...

  5. #140
    Christopher! Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juggs View Post
    You and me both but it is just seems like almost every writer in Marvel is going towards fanfiction level of writing. Sad but it is true.
    How does one differentiate fanfiction from.....whatever we classify everything else we've been reading from Marvel?

    Like, how does one quantify that exactly? What's the criteria? To say that the writers are "fans" writing "fanfiction"? I mean, would folks prefer the writers have a complete lack of interest beyond the paycheck?
    Does any writer who correctly cites continuity or expands upon previously open plot threads earn the title of "fan fiction writer" or are they "someone who does their homework" ?
    How does one even determine? Who is to say they dove deep in the anals of back stories or sought out experts vs. recalled details from memory as a fellow reader of yesteryear?

    I feel as though assigning an identifier like fanfiction is intending to imply amateur writing or a lack of sophistication -- but only when a particular division of the readership/audience simply doesn't like what is written.

    The same goes for "pandering".
    If someone enjoys the story, its good writing. If someone disagrees with the story, well then that writer is "clearly pandering" to a respective subdivision of the fandom? That's just silly.
    And the same applies to the accusations of "pandering" to minority communities and Marvel's efforts of increasing exposure/inclusion of said minority communities. Was it pandering when Storm was introduced so many years ago? Don't get me wrong, I bet LOADS of readers were pissed about this black sistah' stealing the spot light from the beloved signature female from the O5, but we just weren't aware of it as strongly due to the lack of social media platforms of which to GRRRRRAAAAAAAAH!

    Its not pandering.
    Its not fanfiction.
    Its simply this: Not. Your. Taste.
    "Um, blah, blah, blah. And, Girl Power. Feminism, d'you know what I mean?"

  6. #141
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    25 years from now when a couple of major X-Men come out as aromantic asexual and trans respectively, the complaints will begin with, "At least it was organic when Iceman came out as gay and when Rictor was revealed to be bisexual..."

  7. #142
    Junior Member Juggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    25 years from now when a couple of major X-Men come out as aromantic asexual and trans respectively, the complaints will begin with, "At least it was organic when Iceman came out as gay and when Rictor was revealed to be bisexual..."
    The funny thing that it wasn't organic

  8. #143
    Junior Member Juggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    How does one differentiate fanfiction from.....whatever we classify everything else we've been reading from Marvel?

    Like, how does one quantify that exactly? What's the criteria? To say that the writers are "fans" writing "fanfiction"? I mean, would folks prefer the writers have a complete lack of interest beyond the paycheck?
    Does any writer who correctly cites continuity or expands upon previously open plot threads earn the title of "fan fiction writer" or are they "someone who does their homework" ?
    How does one even determine? Who is to say they dove deep in the anals of back stories or sought out experts vs. recalled details from memory as a fellow reader of yesteryear?

    I feel as though assigning an identifier like fanfiction is intending to imply amateur writing or a lack of sophistication -- but only when a particular division of the readership/audience simply doesn't like what is written.

    The same goes for "pandering".
    If someone enjoys the story, its good writing. If someone disagrees with the story, well then that writer is "clearly pandering" to a respective subdivision of the fandom? That's just silly.
    And the same applies to the accusations of "pandering" to minority communities and Marvel's efforts of increasing exposure/inclusion of said minority communities. Was it pandering when Storm was introduced so many years ago? Don't get me wrong, I bet LOADS of readers were pissed about this black sistah' stealing the spot light from the beloved signature female from the O5, but we just weren't aware of it as strongly due to the lack of social media platforms of which to GRRRRRAAAAAAAAH!

    Its not pandering.
    Its not fanfiction.
    Its simply this: Not. Your. Taste.
    Not just it's not your taste sometimes the writing just can be low quality.

    and that's been happening a lot in the comics recently.

  9. #144
    Junior Member Juggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeanvaljean View Post
    How do you think Caitlyn Jenner's kids feel? People transitioning after having had kids isn't that rare.

    I'm thinking not much since they are the Kardashians.

  10. #145
    Junior Member Juggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeanvaljean View Post
    He is is. He is not being being.

    Being being?

  11. #146
    Junior Member Juggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeanvaljean View Post
    So you are saying RL is not "done right."

    Nope just saying the difference from RL and comics.

  12. #147
    Fantastic Member uebersoldat's Avatar
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    Just my $.02 but it probably has a lot to do with Marvel half wanting to make more money same as Disney's thing with Lefou in Beauty and the Beast and half wanting to be seen as progressive and tolerant. I mean, the X-Men are about the minorities and acceptance so it fits the theme but if you think money has nothing to do with it then I think you are just deluding yourselves.

    I never much cared for Iceman so it doesn't bother me but while I don't have anything against LGBT (I know several really sweet people) but if I was a Bobby fan I'd be freakin pissed they just changed him up all of the sudden to meet some kind of agenda.

  13. #148
    Time Police BishopsJuice91's Avatar
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    They did but as fans there's nothing we can do about it. I don't think it's cool and I hope it isn't the main focal point of his solo but if it is I just won't read...

  14. #149
    Christopher! Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uebersoldat View Post
    ... but if I was a Bobby fan I'd be freakin pissed they just changed him up all of the sudden to meet some kind of agenda.
    Realistically, this can be applied to any "major" change to a character.
    Code name swapping (Uh, hey Amanda Sefton) Changes in their romantic life (Rogue bangs Magneto?). Adding or subtracting from one's powerset (Angel has healing blood?). Turning a hero into a villain (Lord knows Emma's status continues to be controversial). Costume change (Lookin' at you Rachel). The list goes on and on for reasons fans can get pissed about changes.

    I'm not arguing either side of the equation by bringing this up, just pointing out that any and all changes can piss people off, and we're all entitled to our respective opinions and/or reactions. The comics-- they go on -- with or without us.
    "Um, blah, blah, blah. And, Girl Power. Feminism, d'you know what I mean?"

  15. #150
    X Gon' Give It to Ya Dum Dum Dugan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uebersoldat View Post
    Just my $.02 but it probably has a lot to do with Marvel half wanting to make more money same as Disney's thing with Lefou in Beauty and the Beast and half wanting to be seen as progressive and tolerant. I mean, the X-Men are about the minorities and acceptance so it fits the theme but if you think money has nothing to do with it then I think you are just deluding yourselves.

    I never much cared for Iceman so it doesn't bother me but while I don't have anything against LGBT (I know several really sweet people) but if I was a Bobby fan I'd be freakin pissed they just changed him up all of the sudden to meet some kind of agenda.
    They made Iceman gay two years ago and they're just now giving him a series. If they did it to make money they could have done a lot more to milk it then, not to mention it happened during the time that Marvel was doing their best to minimize the X-Men's role in the Marvel Universe.

    And Lefou was gay in Beauty and the Beast because the director was gay and wanted there to be more representation. The movie was already going to be a massive success no matter what, it didn't need any help in that area.

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