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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Marvel hasn't been serious about any sense of continuity since Stan Lee retconned away well over half of Captain America canon, killed off Bucky, and froze Cap in ablock of ice, instead of both of them making it through the war in one piece.

    Anyway, every book standing completely on its own is howthings are supposed to be.
    Yeah, Stan retconned Cap when there hadn't been a Captain America comic published for decades, and he wasn't even part of the MU. Since he brought him into "The Marvel Age" of comics, things have occasionally gotten bogged down with continuity, but usually things at least made sense. In the early days, if someone showed up as a guest star in someone else's book that month, it would be acknowledged in the other comic. When the MU got too big, this was no longer possible obviously, but at least you didn't have Wolverine in space, fighting Juggernaut at the mansion, and brainwashed in Madripoor all in the same month. With all the big events, one after another, things have just gotten out of hand, and I understand why, I just wish characters' personalities and most of their backstories at least remained consistent. Bendis is bad for this, because he changes the character to fit whatever story he's telling. When Marvel changed Pietro and Wanda's parentage just because of the movies, it changed the way I look at the stories I enjoyed about them as a kid, and it really bugs me. I agree sometimes it's best to have the books stand on their own and let them tell their own stories, but by never acknowledging that the characters are in a shared universe, you're taking a lot of the fun out of the stories. Fewer events please Marvel; keep some interaction between books when it makes sense, just don't eliminate it completely. My two cents.
    Last edited by stingray; 04-18-2017 at 09:16 AM.

  2. #17
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Making Magneto their father caused a lot of headaches with the ages of Pietro and Wanda. Magneto being a Holocaust survivor pegs his age permanently with the WWII era. His bio gives his birth in the 1920's on Marvel and a fan site pegs it at 1928. After being in Nazi concentration camps at the same time, Eric and his childhood friend Magda escape in 1944. They marry and have 3 children. The first child Anya dies in a fire and she leaves her husband in fear after witnessing Magneto using his powers attack some villagers who prevented him from saving Anya. This would probably be in the late 1940s or early 1950s in the Marvel Universe. You have a hard time applying the sliding timeline (where it's always set to be about 10 to 13 years after the Fantastic Four's space flight) to Wanda and Pietro because of Magneto's timeline.
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  3. #18
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    except with a new canon mother in the form of Natalya Maximoff it is easier to apply the sliding timescale with Magneto as the father.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by stingray View Post
    Yeah, Stan retconned Cap when there hadn't been a Captain America comic published for decades
    Eight or nine years.

    ...and he wasn't even part of the MU.
    Well, obviously he was because he suddenly was an Avenger, and kept a whole bunch of his pre-1945 history.

    Since he brought him into "The Marvel Age" of comics, things have occasionally gotten bogged down with continuity, but usually things at least made sense. In the early days, if someone showed up as a guest star in someone else's book that month, it would be acknowledged in the other comic. When the MU got too big, this was no longer possible obviously, but at least you didn't have Wolverine in space, fighting Juggernaut at the mansion, and brainwashed in Madripoor all in the same month.
    Welp, you didn't have wolverine, period. And only one X-Men book.
    This is less a factor of the MU getting too big, and more of certain characters getting too big for one book.

    With all the big events, one after another, things have just gotten out of hand, and I understand why, I just wish characters' personalities and most of their backstories at least remained consistent. Bendis is bad for this, because he changes the character to fit whatever story he's telling.
    Writers have always been doing this. Sometimes it sticks, sometimes it doesn't.

    When Marvel changed Pietro and Wanda's parentage just because of the movies, it changed the way I look at the stories I enjoyed about them as a kid, and it really bugs me.
    Pietro and Wanda did not start out as Magneto's kids back in the 60's. That was a retcon.

    I agree sometimes it's best to have the books stand on their own and let them tell their own stories, but by never acknowledging that the characters are in a shared universe, you're taking a lot of the fun out of the stories.
    You mean taking a lot of your fun out of it. All it does for me is make me drop books if it gets too bad.

    When I buy a Spider-Woman comic, I there are no words to describe how little I want to read about the Avengers' latest event.
    So this Zealot comes to my door, all glazed eyes and clean reproductive organs, asking me if I ever think about God. So I tell him I killed God. I tracked God down like a rabid dog, hacked off his legs with a hedge trimmer, and boiled off his corpse in an acid bath. So he pulls an alternating-current taser on me and tells me that only the Official Serbian Church of Tesla can save my polyphase intrinsic electric field, known to non-engineers as "the soul". So I hit him. What would you do?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Making Magneto their father caused a lot of headaches with the ages of Pietro and Wanda. Magneto being a Holocaust survivor pegs his age permanently with the WWII era. His bio gives his birth in the 1920's on Marvel and a fan site pegs it at 1928. After being in Nazi concentration camps at the same time, Eric and his childhood friend Magda escape in 1944. They marry and have 3 children. The first child Anya dies in a fire and she leaves her husband in fear after witnessing Magneto using his powers attack some villagers who prevented him from saving Anya. This would probably be in the late 1940s or early 1950s in the Marvel Universe. You have a hard time applying the sliding timeline (where it's always set to be about 10 to 13 years after the Fantastic Four's space flight) to Wanda and Pietro because of Magneto's timeline.
    The High Evolutionary kept the kids in stasis in Wundegore for a few decades to study before giving them to the Maximoffs. There in one line I just fixed ever problem you thought of.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Making Magneto their father caused a lot of headaches with the ages of Pietro and Wanda. Magneto being a Holocaust survivor pegs his age permanently with the WWII era. His bio gives his birth in the 1920's on Marvel and a fan site pegs it at 1928. After being in Nazi concentration camps at the same time, Eric and his childhood friend Magda escape in 1944. They marry and have 3 children. The first child Anya dies in a fire and she leaves her husband in fear after witnessing Magneto using his powers attack some villagers who prevented him from saving Anya. This would probably be in the late 1940s or early 1950s in the Marvel Universe. You have a hard time applying the sliding timeline (where it's always set to be about 10 to 13 years after the Fantastic Four's space flight) to Wanda and Pietro because of Magneto's timeline.
    What I've always wondered, but we can always say that the Maximoff family magic kept Natasha and her brother Django young while Magneto's powers kept him young. Yeah, its stupid, but blame James Robinson for making their adoptive father turn out to be their mother's brother. Oh well, at least he retconned Rick Remender's retcon by revealing that the High Evolutionary was lying about Django and Marya being their "true" biological parents.
    Last edited by Jdsm24; 04-18-2017 at 10:12 AM.

  7. #22
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    Oh, they're serious. Brevoort (whose office did not do the Scarlet Witch book) defended it pretty vigorously on his Tumblr, and even the Scarlet Witch series had a scene where she tells a phantom Magneto "I'm not your daughter! I never was!"

    I'd be fine if they restored it and wiped out this retcon; I don't mind them not being Magneto's children, but saying they're something other than mutants is silly. (Though a writer could do something with that - like, if they've lived as mutants all their lives, then how are they not real mutants? - but I don't think writers are interested enough in the twins to do that story.) But I don't think it's going to happen. The teaser about Wanda's real father was a hook that could be used in case she ever gets another book, or if a writer wants to use it someday.

  8. #23
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    They aren't changing their origin to what it was before Axis because Secret Wars happened and the universe is different now. It is possible that Magneto is father of the Maximoffs, but Magda is not their mother. They weren't born on Mount Wundagore in the 1950s, they were born in Serbia at the time of the Yugoslavian Civil War. If you want Magneto to be their father, you need to show us what Magneto was doing in the early 1990s.

  9. #24
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    I don't think we can assume Secret Wars changed anything unless we're specifically told it did. It really was not any kind of a continuity reboot. I mean, they knew Secret Wars was coming when they assigned Remender to retcon their origins, but they obviously intended this retcon to last beyond Secret Wars, just as most Marvel continuity remains the same after Secret Wars.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfan View Post
    They aren't changing their origin to what it was before Axis because Secret Wars happened and the universe is different now. It is possible that Magneto is father of the Maximoffs, but Magda is not their mother. They weren't born on Mount Wundagore in the 1950s, they were born in Serbia at the time of the Yugoslavian Civil War. If you want Magneto to be their father, you need to show us what Magneto was doing in the early 1990s.
    Yeah, but his bio by Claremont has specific events, like after Anya dies and Magda leaves him, he goes to Israel and meets Charles then he turns into a Nazi hunter. The Nazis left in the 1990s would be senior citizens and there's be no element of danger or derring-do in that like you see in the X-Men First Class movie. I suppose he could push their wheelchairs down a flight of stairs or something.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punjabi_Hitman View Post
    Marvel hasn't been serious about any sense of continuity since Bendis hit it big it seems, since they let him do whatever he wants to. Now there is no continuity whatsoever between any of the books. You go from one book to another and it seems to be completely in a whole universe of its own.
    This. Bendis is (was) a very good writer, even an important one who has the same impact than a Liefeld or a Claremont had in their time, but he destroyed the sense of continuity in the Marvel Universe.
    Sorry for my english, not my first language.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Eight or nine years.

    Well, obviously he was because he suddenly was an Avenger, and kept a whole bunch of his pre-1945 history.


    Welp, you didn't have wolverine, period. And only one X-Men book.
    This is less a factor of the MU getting too big, and more of certain characters getting too big for one book.

    Writers have always been doing this. Sometimes it sticks, sometimes it doesn't.

    Pietro and Wanda did not start out as Magneto's kids back in the 60's. That was a retcon.


    You mean taking a lot of your fun out of it. All it does for me is make me drop books if it gets too bad.

    When I buy a Spider-Woman comic, I there are no words to describe how little I want to read about the Avengers' latest event.

    Yeah, Cap was part of Timely comics, not Marvel. Same owner, different company. Stan decided to revive him and Namor, and some others, but that was sort of like DC acquiring the Charlton characters and assimilating them into the DCU, except because of Martin Goodman owning the rights, they didn't have to buy anyone out. Of course there was no Wolverine, that was my whole "when the MU got too big" point. Writers have not always done this. Hawkeye was portrayed in the same way for decades until all of a sudden he became a killer. I know Wanda and Pietro were not always his kids, but they were tied to him from the beginning, and it made sense story wise when it came out. I agree most of the time a book should be insular and not have to tie in with events, but an occasional guest star like DD in a Spider-Man book is fun, and makes sense.

  13. #28
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    I suppose that it's posible that just as the Fox movies have Anya and Pietro have different mothers, then Magda never had the twins, just Anya.

    But i hope not, because Ultimate Magda Lensherr, the Witch of Wundagore,IS the blatantly obvious template for this new Secret Scarlet Witch Senior, Natalya Maximoff.

    And it would be a waste to lose the Twins biological connection to Ultimate Wolverine Jr. being their younger half-brother on their mother's side. Ultimate Magneto got literally cuckolded by Ultimate Wolverine, heh, which could explain why he grew to hate all humans, especially the Twins mother.

    Amusingly enough though, Mark Millar originally had the name of the Ultimate Twin's mother be Isabelle and wanted to base her on a non-Gypsy dead scientist girlfriend of Magneto in Marvel-616 who was killed by Hydra, but Jeph Loeb just retconned that and made her consistent with Marvel-616.
    Last edited by Jdsm24; 04-18-2017 at 11:49 AM.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by stingray View Post
    When the MU got too big, this was no longer possible obviously, but at least you didn't have Wolverine in space, fighting Juggernaut at the mansion, and brainwashed in Madripoor all in the same month.
    That is not a recent phenomena. Ever since Wolverine got a solo series in the late 80's, he's been having simultaneous adventures around the world in different titles.

    Wolverine first appeared in 1974, became an X-Man in 1975, and got an ongoing title in 1988. So his first year was as a guest star. Then he spent 13 years as a regular character in the X-Men with occasional guest appearances in other titles. But since 1988, he has been a regular in multiple titles. That's 29 years so far. That means for about 2/3's of his publication history he's been doing exactly what you said didn't happen until until recently. I'm willing to bet that is longer than most posters (including the ones complaining about continuity) have been reading comics.

    This is not an aberration for his character, it is the norm. If people complain about it now, then they must not have been paying attention to something that has been standard publishing practices since the 1980's.
    Last edited by Rincewind; 04-18-2017 at 11:54 AM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    That is not a recent phenomena. Ever since Wolverine got a solo series in the late 80's, he's been having simultaneous adventures around the world in different titles.

    Wolverine first appeared in 1974, became an X-Man in 1975, and got an ongoing title in 1988. So his first year was as a guest star. Then he spent 13 years as a regular character in the X-Men with occasional guest appearances in other titles. But since 1988, he has been a regular in multiple titles. That's 29 years so far. That means for about 2/3's of his publication history he's been doing exactly what you said didn't happen until until recently. I'm willing to bet that is longer than most posters (including the ones complaining about continuity) have been reading comics.

    This is not an aberration for his character, it is the norm. If people complain about it now, then they must not have been paying attention to something that has been standard publishing practices since the 1980's.
    Not talking about the eighties. I started buying comics in the sixties. At no point did I say it was a recent thing. I'm just saying I used to like it more when a character, group etc. had one book a month, and if there was a crossover, it was better planned and coordinated. Wolverine appeared sparingly back in the day. You said yourself, from 1974 to 1988 he wasn't all over the place. Even when he and Spider-Man started appearing more, it was a lot better planned. All I said in my post was that I preferred the single book a month format, with occasional guest appearances. It's just a money grab now, where a core concept is diluted to a ridiculous degree.

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