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  1. #151
    Resident of Central City RedWhiteAndBlueSupes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I super doubt DC'll ever get the name back. Not with a billion dollar movie soon to be made from the name.

    It'd be cool to see the split personality come back, but I'm not sure they'll ever really do it again. It's likely they'll make it so Shazam just has added wisdom that helps him. Also they'll likely made Billy more likable.

    But the split would be cool.
    I'd have to read up on the legal stuff, but it wouldn't surprise me if they got the name back at some point. As for the movie, I'd love to see a Shazam movie done right, key word done right. I just can't see it being made anything special in the current Hollywood climate. Like I was just watching the Tom Tyler Captain Mavel Serial the other day for the first time in a long while, and really, that's all that ever need to be made. Perfect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic Man View Post
    Waid would certainly be the guy to do it. He wants to go back to the notion that Billy and Cap are two separate beings. That would be a great way to give the premise a shot in the arm and make it far more compelling than a punk kid turning into an adult with the mind of a punk kid. I wonder if DC could work something out with Marvel to get shared use of the Captain Marvel title? Waid doesn't seem too keen on the current status quo.
    The idea of them not being two separate beings was always stupid IMO. It's key to the premise of the book. Really though, if I had my way Captain Marvel would never be a part of the DCU, they have treated him terribly the last 10 years. It makes no sense for him to languish at DC when literally any other publisher could easily be telling great stories with him. If I had my way he'd go back to the Fawcett universe and just pick up from there like nothing happened.
    Phantom rough on roughnecks- Old Jungle Saying

  2. #152
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedWhiteAndBlueSupes View Post
    The idea of them not being two separate beings was always stupid IMO. It's key to the premise of the book. Really though, if I had my way Captain Marvel would never be a part of the DCU, they have treated him terribly the last 10 years. It makes no sense for him to languish at DC when literally any other publisher could easily be telling great stories with him. If I had my way he'd go back to the Fawcett universe and just pick up from there like nothing happened.
    I like seeing the Marvels being able to interact with the heroes and villains of the greater DCU, so I think the best compromise is to revive the Earth-S concept. Put the Marvels in their own universe where they're clearly the top dogs, but enable them to periodically meet and interact with the rest of the DC Universe through Multiverse travel.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
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  3. #153
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakuyamons View Post
    I can't find the panel right now, but it was so...overall it's enjoyable, though, because I enjoy all the characters there - However, it's very clear that Waid favors some members over others imo. I haven't read it anymore since apparently Gwenpool is part of it, and that's too much for me.
    Yeah between the price and the roster I'm reluctant. But I will buy two copies of an issue where a villain is told to "take that for data."

  4. #154
    Astonishing Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    I like seeing the Marvels being able to interact with the heroes and villains of the greater DCU, so I think the best compromise is to revive the Earth-S concept. Put the Marvels in their own universe where they're clearly the top dogs, but enable them to periodically meet and interact with the rest of the DC Universe through Multiverse travel.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    I think if I had my way Shazam would be on Earth 2 and fill the Superman role on that world. Earth S was always just to isolated for my tastes.

  5. #155
    Resident of Central City RedWhiteAndBlueSupes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    I like seeing the Marvels being able to interact with the heroes and villains of the greater DCU, so I think the best compromise is to revive the Earth-S concept. Put the Marvels in their own universe where they're clearly the top dogs, but enable them to periodically meet and interact with the rest of the DC Universe through Multiverse travel.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    I liked the original pre-crisis earth-S as well, Dc's original Shazam book was some good stuff too, it sucks that there has yet to be a omnibus or anything but a Showcase release of (some) of that series. I mean yeah if they could bring back Earth-S, that would be great, but DC has a hard time even tying they're shoes right now. And really, bringing back Captain Marvel/Shazam/Marvel Family and his rogues in any meaningful way would require a little bit of creative goodwill, I just don't see the current DC being able to handle that. Put him at Boom! Dynamite, or heck anywhere really and he'd get fixed in a hurry.

    And really the idea that back then too many Earths was too confusing for the DC bullpen to remember is hilarious by todays standards. Considering we now have 52 earth's some of them ?'s and NONE of those 52 earths actually embrace the history of DC! The main reason they were created in the first place. (sigh)
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  6. #156
    Incredible Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    There's a KINGDOM COME-hating bandwagon that kids are jumping on these days? Man, I really am out of the loop.
    I don't know about a bandwagon. I do have a lot of problems with Kingdom Come, mostly that it tries to be about this resurgence of morality in a morally bankrupt world, despite the fact that it has inconsistent morals, absolutely none of the sense of whimsy that it supposedly advocates for by condemning the moral ambiguity that it embraces, and more than a little obnoxiously self-righteousness.

    I've heard people unambiguously say that they think it's a good take on Superman and Captain Marvel. Back when I liked the book, I thought that the point was that it was a bad take on them on purpose. Superman leaves humanity to burn because they're okay with the worst serial murderer in history being killed, only to come back after twenty years of chaos that he could've prevented, and basically declares that he knows the Real Moral Way Forward, which is, apparently, to build gulags for anyone he thinks is morally inferior to him! That's like my second-least-favorite take on Superman after Injustice! But if it was meant as a sort of analysis of Superman's moral failings (often inconsistent with the "Real" Superman's, by the way) then I could sort of see the appeal. After all, I sure like Overman from Master Men and Comrade Superman from Red Son, so how is this any different?

    I say I used to think the morally problematic side to Superman was deliberate, because a few years ago I saw Mark Waid at a panel at a convention. He complained about Snyder's Man of Steel because it presented the audience with (and I quote) "a Superman who murders", emphasis his. After that, I sort of reevaluated my reading of Kingdom Come. I think that we're actually supposed to agree with Superman throwing a hissy fit because Magog was acquitted for killing the Joker, like it was an honest mistake that he overreacted instead of the total refusal to engage with humanity in their relief at Joker's death. And people on the internet have negatively compared the Snyderverse Superman to the Kingdom Come Superman pretty frequently too, although I think that a man who leaves his home to rot or 20 years and comes back to build gulags is a lot more problematic than a man who leaves for two days because he thinks he might be harmful and then comes back to save his loved ones, immediately proving his own despair about human nature wrong. Frankly, I can't imagine why anyone would think Batman v. Superman has a more morally problematic Superman than Kingdom Come! So even if the KC Kal is meant to be problematic, too many folks online act like he is that it started to bug me and helped push me over into "Kingdom Come is not good".

    Not to mention that the embodiment of Whimsy and Joy, Billy Batson / Captain Marvel, has spent his entire adult life brainwashed by Luthor and Mister Mind, and only breaks free in order to nuke a whole bunch of people! Oh, but he made the right choice, he "chose life" by not killing all of them, even though being okay with killing the Joker is unforgivable! So I think the story's ethics are internally inconsistent on top of everything. I never thought it was a bandwagon though. More like me going "full hipster"... <_< | >_>

    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    I like seeing the Marvels being able to interact with the heroes and villains of the greater DCU, so I think the best compromise is to revive the Earth-S concept. Put the Marvels in their own universe where they're clearly the top dogs, but enable them to periodically meet and interact with the rest of the DC Universe through Multiverse travel.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    Agreed, unequivocally. Cap just doesn't belong in a world where he plays seventh fiddle to Superman all the time- but it's nice to see them together for the occasional team-up. Same applies to anyone else you might want to see him with, really.

    Hm. Question: if we wanted to put the Marvel Family all on Thunderworld / Earth 5/S but we could bring a few other heroes and villains with them so it's not just Billy, Freddie and Mary over there with Mr. Mind, Dr. Sivana, Sabbac, Ibac, King Kull, Mr. Atom and the Monster Society, who would we bring?
    "You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."

  7. #157
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    Hm. Question: if we wanted to put the Marvel Family all on Thunderworld / Earth 5/S but we could bring a few other heroes and villains with them so it's not just Billy, Freddie and Mary over there with Mr. Mind, Dr. Sivana, Sabbac, Ibac, King Kull, Mr. Atom and the Monster Society, who would we bring?
    Isis (Filmation's Egyptian nature goddess/superheroine, not the terrorist group) and her entire mythos and supporting cast (derived from the old 1970s TV series). Isis did enter pop culture and the superhero world as a companion character to Filmation's SHAZAM TV series in the 1970s, so it would make sense she would be associated with the Marvels.

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  8. #158
    Fantastic Member Mister BoMan's Avatar
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    I would love to see Mark Waid on a Superman title.
    Pull List: Superman, Action Comics, Batman,Titans, Flash, Nightwing, Green Arrow, Youngblood, Black Hammer

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  9. #159
    Incredible Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    Isis (Filmation's Egyptian nature goddess/superheroine, not the terrorist group) and her entire mythos and supporting cast (derived from the old 1970s TV series). Isis did enter pop culture and the superhero world as a companion character to Filmation's SHAZAM TV series in the 1970s, so it would make sense she would be associated with the Marvels.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    I guess that tangentially brings up another question - does Black Adam belong on Thunderworld?

    Basically, I think that Black Adam's become a fairly complex moral character, was never all that whimsical, and works best as what might be called an anti-hero- but only when he isn't forced into the villain role by having to fight Cap. Thus, it might make sense not to send him to Thunderworld, which is mostly populated with pretty morally straightforward characters who are either selfish criminals or good-old-fashioned heroes. Adam might have fit into the latter category earlier in his history, but I think that he works better as a good guy whose morals no longer fit with the world he's returned to. Anyway, since Isis and Osiris made their contemporary debut in 52 as sort of a "Black Adam Family", I think that it's a question worth asking- though of course Isis could always go to Thunderworld and leave Adam on Earth 0 or something like that.

    Though I gotta say, I do kind of like the idea of an Earth 0 Black Adam meeting his "people are ants" alternate self from Thunderworld and beating the tar out of him.

    Here's a question: Fawcett used to publish a Captain Midnight book. What are the odds of DC getting him for Earth-S? I mean since we're playing pretend here and imagining they'd make an Earth-S book anyway?
    "You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."

  10. #160
    Metahumane MykeHavoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntoKent17 View Post
    Well, Mark Waid at the script and Dan Jurgens back at the pencils... that'd be music for my ears!
    Was literally going to say the same thing.

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