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Thread: Superman#21

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clementine - The Worst Poster Ever View Post
    You got to use spoiler tags, like this:

    [spoil*]Insert spoilers here[/spoil]

    Remove the * and post whatever you want between the tags.
    Thank you Clem! Much appreciated.

    So I was wondering has anyone else thought that the spoilers:
    octopus here is somehow related to Watchmen and the overall Rebirth storyline? One would assume the newly merged Superman would have some participation in "The Button", is this what is keeping him busy (depending on timeline of this event to that one).
    end of spoilers

    Just figured it may be worth a mention. Maybe the unidentified puppeteer is keeping Supes and Hamilton County under close watch due to the results of Reborn.

  2. #17
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    The idea of Superman quote from Man of Steel is a tad concerning given how audiences view Clark's dads in that film.

  3. #18
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    One question I have is this (trying the spoiler tag):

    spoilers:
    Did anyone else find it strange that the people of Hamilton recognized Jon as Superboy and the son of Superman? I thought Superman was still keeping his existence low key? Wouldn't the fact that the most famous alien and most powerful person on the planet has a kid make people want to know who his Mom is and start inquiring if he does have a secret identity?
    end of spoilers

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clementine - The Worst Poster Ever View Post
    Could be that they don't think it's good work, or it could that they enjoy the books but are critical of certain aspects.

    I'm sure you already know that you can like something while not liking everything about it.
    Yeah direct that comment the poster who took issue to Rakzo for liking Tomasi's work on the family so far. Could be Rakzo thinks it's good work same as I do.

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    So because you "couldn't give two figs" about the female lead of the franchise being underused that means that those of us who are concerned about it and are sharing our genuine concern can't share it? Comics are supposed to be inclusive. You may not care about her being treated well but plenty of people DO and it's not like DC has "sales" to spare here.

    And no one is "trashing" the book. At least, I'm not. There is a lot I like about this book but I read 3 Superman family books today and Lois Lane had literally 2 lines in one of them and was a non issue for the others. This concerns me.
    You can do or say whatever you want just like I can. They are doing great work with the family as far as I'm concerned. Female lead or not Lois isn't on my radar. It's called Superman. Clarke and Jon are the reason why I drop dollar on this book so Tomasi is giving me gold right now and that is all that matters to me.

    Yes DC doesn't have sales to spare and as a Batman Fan who has NEVER been into Superman those guys managed to bring me and my wallet on side by doing what they're doing.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    I'm bothered that the two best investigative journalists in the world apparently need Batman to tell them that something is wrong. This story would be so much more compelling to me if it was Lois and Clark chasing leads to solve this.

    I agree it's early days and I'm trying to be patient. But I'm losing faith, guys. I'm sorry to be a buzzkill. :/
    I think that this is first of all a Superman book, he should come first always, so I usually don't care that much about the supporting characters, but I agree wih you. I'm really liking the Superman books, but one flaw I see is too much Batman, appart from the fun dynamic between Jon and Damian that's nothing in this book that couldn't be acomplished without him, Superman have all the tec from the Fortress and more knowledge about kryptonian biology than anyone and Lois could and should be the one investigating the weirdness in Hamilton.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Yeah direct that comment the poster who took issue to Rakzo for liking Tomasi's work on the family so far. Could be Rakzo thinks it's good work same as I do.
    The other poster was disagreeing with Razko's take that Tomasi/Gleason were handing the Super-family well.

    A poster says something is good, and another replies saying it isn't. Nothing out of the ordinary there.
    Creativity without constraint comes with responsibility. We do not make art in a vacuum isolated from sociopolitical context - RG

  8. #23
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    Lois probably would have been out investigating had Jon told his parents about what he and Kathy found in the swamp.

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member sakuyamons's Avatar
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    Unreal issue.

    I know they have their own book, but the interaction between the boys is always gold, Damian calling Clark Superdad? Great. I think I've enjoyed this more than the reborn arc. I think the criticism towards how Tomasi and Gleeson treat Lois is a fair one, though. I know the main focus is Clark and his son, but let the lady also investigate Cobb.

    Secondly, holy sh%t!! Even Kathy is tangled into the mess! I think that this arc will traumatized poor Jon, it seems to be that there Clark underestimates Jon at times and that's what is causing the drift between them (well, that and Damian's bad influence, lmao) is it fair because he is ten, but he is also a ten year old with powers.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjames21 View Post
    One question I have is this (trying the spoiler tag):

    spoilers:
    Did anyone else find it strange that the people of Hamilton recognized Jon as Superboy and the son of Superman? I thought Superman was still keeping his existence low key? Wouldn't the fact that the most famous alien and most powerful person on the planet has a kid make people want to know who his Mom is and start inquiring if he does have a secret identity?
    end of spoilers
    Probably not hard to guess superboy is Superman's son. He may have publicly revealed it in this timeline also, we don't know.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    You can do or say whatever you want just like I can. They are doing great work with the family as far as I'm concerned. Female lead or not Lois isn't on my radar. It's called Superman. Clarke and Jon are the reason why I drop dollar on this book so Tomasi is giving me gold right now and that is all that matters to me.

    Yes DC doesn't have sales to spare and as a Batman Fan who has NEVER been into Superman those guys managed to bring me and my wallet on side by doing what they're doing.
    So you say the book is "called Superman" and "Clark and Jon" are why you buy. Even though Jon is not Superman. And you don't care about Jon's mother at all.

    I guess Lois is just a means to end. She gave birth to a boy child and has now fulfilled her purpose. Who cares if she ever gets treated with even the same equality that her son gets? Cool. I think I understand.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member sakuyamons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    So because you "couldn't give two figs" about the female lead of the franchise being underused that means that those of us who are concerned about it and are sharing our genuine concern can't share it? Comics are supposed to be inclusive. You may not care about her being treated well but plenty of people DO and it's not like DC has "sales" to spare here.

    And no one is "trashing" the book. At least, I'm not. There is a lot I like about this book but I read 3 Superman family books today and Lois Lane had literally 2 lines in one of them and was a non issue for the others. This concerns me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    So you say the book is "called Superman" and "Clark and Jon" are why you buy. Even though Jon is not Superman. And you don't care about Jon's mother at all.

    I guess Lois is just a means to end. She gave birth to a boy child and has now fulfilled her purpose. Who cares if she ever gets treated with even the same equality that her son gets? Cool. I think I understand.
    Come on, I agree with you over the treatment of Lois on the book (and as much as I love Tomasi and Pat, I don't think that will change) but I think that'd be the same if Jon had been born a girl (or that's what I like to think) you also have to keep in mind that Hamilton isn't as...good for Lois to act (like she was doing at Action) than Metropolis. Maybe she'll get an active role once they move? Don't get me wrong, though, you criticism is valid and I agree that Lois should be more proactive.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakuyamons View Post
    Come on, I agree with you over the treatment of Lois on the book (and as much as I love Tomasi and Pat, I don't think that will change) but I think that'd be the same if Jon had been born a girl (or that's what I like to think) you also have to keep in mind that Hamilton isn't as...good for Lois to act (like she was doing at Action) than Metropolis. Maybe she'll get an active role once they move? Don't get me wrong, though, you criticism is valid and I agree that Lois should be more proactive.
    I mean...I love Jon but do I think he would be getting as much attention if he had been a daughter? Honestly? I'm not sure.

    What could she do in Hamilton? Well, for starters, why hasn't she noticed that her neighbor is a bit creepy? Her instincts are usually razor sharp. Why didn't she accompany them to look for Batman? She could be following clues. This entire Story could have been about Lois and Clark following clues to figure out what's going on in this creepy town. She could be actively writing for the local paper. She could still be collecting data for take downs as she was in Jurgens' series. She could be talking openly to her son about what she learned growing up with a General father. There is plenty she could be doing to add to this book. They just....won't allow her to do it.

  14. #29

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    Nelliebly, I think you are being unfair to the book and its creators.

    I think first we should address the elephant in the room, that this book is called SUPERMAN. Lois, Jon, Batman etc. are all supporting characters, meant to background and complete the story or Superman himself. They directly aren't main players.

    The only complain I can see being valid, is that there is too much involvement of the supporting characters, mainly Jon, but that I would argue is necessary since its plays to make Superman react, to have Superman challenged.

    The first arc, despite its focus on Jon's new identity, Lois in the Bat-suit etc, was all about the Return of Superman.
    The second arc, despite the involvement of Jon, it was all about setting the Multiplicity
    The third arc was a direct lead to Super-Sons, which is the only arc Superman took a back-seat and the only worth of complaining.
    The fourth arc, was about Superman & Lois and their dynamics post-marriage.
    Multiplicity was all about Supes.
    Reborn featured Lois and Jon since it affected all of them.
    And Black Dawn is all about asking Superman the hard questions through his son.

    The book is called Superman. Asking for more Lois, is understandable if you are a hardcore fan of her but not a flaw in the storytelling. Its like saying you want more Steve in Wonder Woman and more Vicky Vale in Batman. They aren't the point of the book.

    You want more Lois, she has two new novels focusing sole on her. You can pick up, the Action Comics two-parter focused on her. The Superwoman title, which she is featured regularly.

    But SUPERMAN is at the end of the day, about Superman.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man_of_Tomorrow View Post
    Nelliebly, I think you are being unfair to the book and its creators.

    I think first we should address the elephant in the room, that this book is called SUPERMAN. Lois, Jon, Batman etc. are all supporting characters, meant to background and complete the story or Superman himself. They directly aren't main players.

    The only complain I can see being valid, is that there is too much involvement of the supporting characters, mainly Jon, but that I would argue is necessary since its plays to make Superman react, to have Superman challenged.

    The first arc, despite its focus on Jon's new identity, Lois in the Bat-suit etc, was all about the Return of Superman.
    The second arc, despite the involvement of Jon, it was all about setting the Multiplicity
    The third arc was a direct lead to Super-Sons, which is the only arc Superman took a back-seat and the only worth of complaining.
    The fourth arc, was about Superman & Lois and their dynamics post-marriage.
    Multiplicity was all about Supes.
    Reborn featured Lois and Jon since it affected all of them.
    And Black Dawn is all about asking Superman the hard questions through his son.

    The book is called Superman. Asking for more Lois, is understandable if you are a hardcore fan of her but not a flaw in the storytelling. Its like saying you want more Steve in Wonder Woman and more Vicky Vale in Batman. They aren't the point of the book.

    You want more Lois, she has two new novels focusing sole on her. You can pick up, the Action Comics two-parter focused on her. The Superwoman title, which she is featured regularly.

    But SUPERMAN is at the end of the day, about Superman.
    Thank you for this education. I've been reading Superman comics for 20 years and, up until this moment when you educated me, I was under the impression that the book was about someone else. This is super condescending. Come on.

    First off, no, Lois, Jon, Batman and Damien are NOT all supporting characters. Lois and Jon are the Superman family. Batman and Damien are not in the Super family not supporting characters anymore than Wonder Woman was. They have their own books. Several actually.

    Jon also has a book. Lana Lang has a book. I'm not actually asking for Superman himself to have any less page time. I would just like to see Lois, the most important supporting character in the whole franchise, to have more than two lines to say. I would like her too have at least equal page time to Damien Wayne who isn't ::actually:: a supporting character. I really don't think that's too much to ask.

    P.S. I loved those two issues of Action Comics but they were two issues months ago. I'm not really sure why You think two issues months ago makes up for months of neglect in this book. She is not regularly featured in the Superwoman title btw. She didn't even speak today in the issue.

    P.P.S: Lois Lane actuality has 3 Young adult novels not 2. I've read all 3 and know the author. She's great. Lois is only 16 in those books and they are not connected to comics nor part of this so not relevant here at all. The only way they are relevant is in showing that there is a female audience for Lois and that maybe it's a wasted opportunity that DC Comics refuses to do anything with her. But thanks for the suggestion!

    P.P.P.S: in what world is Vicki Vale had the same impact on the DCU as Lois Lane has? Even Trevor, who I do love, is just appearing on film for the first time this June. But Vicki Vale? Not even comparable. Call me when Vicki Vale is the star of her own tv series and YA novels.
    Last edited by Nelliebly; 04-19-2017 at 09:56 AM.

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