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Thread: Superman#21

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    Thank you for this education! I had no idea that this book was called Superman! I've been reading Superman comics for 20 years and, up until this moment when you educated me, I was under the impression that the book was about someone else. Whew. Thank you. Thank God you were here.

    First off, no, Lois, Jon, Batman and Damien are NOT all supporting characters. Lois and Jon are the Superman family. Batman and Damien are not in the Super family not supporting characters anymore than Wonder Woman was. They have their own books. Several actually.

    Jon also has a book. Lana Lang has a book. I'm not actually asking for Superman himself to have any less page time. I would just like to see Lois, the most important supporting character in the whole franchise, to have more than two lines to say. I would like her too have at least equal page time to Damien Wayne who isn't ::actually:: a supporting character. I really don't think that's too much to ask.

    P.S. I loved those two issues of Action Comics but they were two issues months ago. I'm not really sure why Jon think two issues months ago makes up for months of neglect in this book.

    P.P.S: Lois Lane actuality has 3 Young adult novels not 2. I've read all 3 and know the author. She's great. Lois is only 16 in those books and they are not connected to comics nor part of this so not relevant here at all. The only way they are relevant is in showing that there is a female audience for Lois and that maybe it's a wasted opportunity that DC Comics refuses to do anything with her. But thanks for the suggestion!
    Not reason for such hostility. You only make yourself lose face and create tension.

    By the same logic, Superman family is also...Jimmy Olsen, Perry White, Lana Lang, Steel. The list goes on, and the supporting characters are chosen depending on the story and its goals. The goal is for Superman to reaffirm his beliefs. Lois doesn't have a place here, because she knows Clark is right.


    But anyway, I don't have something else to add.

  2. #32
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    I definitely think its looking stronger and stronger that the mystery figure is turning out to be Manchester Black. I mean, every time we see him in this book, he has a cigarette in his hand. Who else does that besides John Constantine?
    Favorite Mythologies: Green Lantern, Batman (pre-Flashpoint), Spider-Man, The Fantastic Four, the Justice League/JLA (pre-Flashpoint)

    DC Pulls - Action Comics; Batman; Hal Jordan & the GLC; Superman; Wonder Woman

    Marvel Pulls - Captain America: Steve Rogers; The Mighty Thor

    Non-Big Two Pulls - Saga; Archie

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man_of_Tomorrow View Post
    Not reason for such hostility. You only make yourself lose face and create tension.

    By the same logic, Superman family is also...Jimmy Olsen, Perry White, Lana Lang, Steel. The list goes on, and the supporting characters are chosen depending on the story and its goals. The goal is for Superman to reaffirm his beliefs. Lois doesn't have a place here, because she knows Clark is right.


    But anyway, I don't have something else to add.
    Dude, you lectured me like I was an idiot that the book was "about Superman" like I was some kind of idiot. I've been reading Superman comics for 20 years. I know it's about Superman and never once did I say he should have less focus in his own book. You can't treat me like I'm dumb and then be surprised when I find that hurtful.

    Lana Lang and Steel have a book so that's irrelevant here. Lana has had 9 issues dedicated to her POV in Superwoman including one today. I would love to see more Jimmy and Perry. Certainly more than Damien.

    Lois knows Clark is right about what? She has "no place here" in a story specifically designed to learn the mystery of her own son and their hometown but BATMAN does? Damien does? But SHE, his wife, Jon's mother and the supposed most important family member has no place? You are reaching. Look, I get it. You guys don't care about her. That's fine. But some of us do. So let us critique this and advocate for her. She had two lines today. That's it. We aren't asking for her to take over the book! We are asking only that she be treated better than literally the bare minimum. It baffles me that apparently wanting the oldest female character in comics to get more than the bare minimum meets THIS much hand wringing and resistance from you guys.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    Dude, you lectured me like I was an idiot that the book was "about Superman" like I was some kind of idiot. I've been reading Superman comics for 20 years. I know it's about Superman and never once did I say he should have less focus in his own book. You can't treat me like I'm dumb and then be surprised when I find that hurtful.

    Lana Lang and Steel have a book so that's irrelevant here. Lana has had 9 issues dedicated to her POV in Superwoman including one today. I would love to see more Jimmy and Perry. Certainly more than Damien.

    Lois knows Clark is right about what? She has "no place here" in a story specifically designed to learn the mystery of her own son and their hometown but BATMAN does? Damien does? But SHE, his wife, Jon's mother and the supposed most important family member has no place? You are reaching. Look, I get it. You guys don't care about her. That's fine. But some of us do. So let us critique this and advocate for her. She had two lines today. That's it. We aren't asking for her to take over the book! We are asking only that she be treated better than literally the bare minimum. It baffles me that apparently wanting the oldest female character in comics to get more than the bare minimum meets THIS much hand wringing and resistance from you guys.
    I was trying to build my argument from the ground up. I guess it seemed condescending.

    The arc isn't even over yet and If you remember the issue opened with Damian,Jon and Supes looking for Batman, who has gone missing. Not to solve the mystery about Jon's powers or Cobb's intention, who Superman and Lois didn't even believe had ulterior motives. Why would she be part of the search to begin with? Plus Lois has already started her next sub-plot with the letter she received in the previous issue.

    I am not being resistant against Lois having a bigger role. I just feel you and others in the forums are being quite negative.

    That goes in general here, there is too much negativity, too much complaining, like you people want to see the titles go bad just so you can burn them and rip 'em and new one.

    The as the months go by, the complains become more and more nipticky. Heck, Action Comics has vastly improved since its first arc but people make hard tries to find something to complain about, when the title is relatively inoffensive. And Superman is one of the best titles in the stands, and here I see complains that range from mundane to overwhelmingly crazy.You personally even tried to portray the creators in a sexist light.

    And in the other threads people are fighting over if Waid should write a Superman title, because of his politics, WAID, who is one of the most talented writers and one of Superman's biggest fans.

    Incredible.

  5. #35
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    There is a frustration inherent in the bi-weekly format: it feels like two comics, because there are physically two comics, but really it's more like one. There is a very noticeable amount of decompression and the 2-parters don't cover a lot of ground with plot, setting, etc. There are technically very many issues that have gone by without much at all concerning Lois or Metropolis, but the seeds are there and the plot is clearly underway.

    I'm not sure if people are really getting on this much: Superboy is public?

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    There is a frustration inherent in the bi-weekly format: it feels like two comics, because there are two comics, but really it's more like one. There is a very noticeable amount of decompression and the 2-parters don't cover a lot of ground with plot, setting, etc. There are technically very many issues that have gone by without much at all concerning Lois or Metropolis, but the seeds are there and the plot is clearly underway.

    I'm not sure if people are really getting on this much: Superboy is public?
    Wasn't he caught on camera in the first arc?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man_of_Tomorrow View Post
    I was trying to build my argument from the ground up. I guess it seemed condescending.

    The arc isn't even over yet and If you remember the issue opened with Damian,Jon and Supes looking for Batman, who has gone missing. Not to solve the mystery about Jon's powers or Cobb's intention, who Superman and Lois didn't even believe had ulterior motives. Why would she be part of the search to begin with? Plus Lois has already started her next sub-plot with the letter she received in the previous issue.

    I am not being resistant against Lois having a bigger role. I just feel you and others in the forums are being quite negative.

    That goes in general here, there is too much negativity, too much complaining, like you people want to see the titles go bad just so you can burn them and rip 'em and new one.

    The as the months go by, the complains become more and more nipticky. Heck, Action Comics has vastly improved since its first arc but people make hard tries to find something to complain about, when the title is relatively inoffensive. And Superman is one of the best titles in the stands, and here I see complains that range from mundane to overwhelmingly crazy.You personally even tried to portray the creators in a sexist light.

    And in the other threads people are fighting over if Waid should write a Superman title, because of his politics, WAID, who is one of the most talented writers and one of Superman's biggest fans.

    Incredible.

    Yes, it was condescending. But I appreciate your self-awareness.

    Look, I respect and appreciate that you are tired of negativity. But I'm not just being negative here. I've waited for literally 6 years for Lois to finally be given a better role in these books. I've spent so much $$$ on comics and I've been very patient.

    You need to let people critique things like this without accusing us of negativity because, when you do that, you make me feel like you don't really respect my concerns. It trivializes them. I'm not trying to be negative. I LIKE this book which is why I really wish that Lois was deemed worthy of being a more active part of it. I think she has earned that. That's all I'm saying.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    Yes, it was condescending. But I appreciate your self-awareness.

    Look, I respect and appreciate that you are tired of negativity. But I'm not just being negative here. I've waited for literally 6 years for Lois to finally be given a better role in these books. I've spent so much $$$ on comics and I've been very patient.

    You need to let people critique things like this without accusing us of negativity because, when you do that, you make me feel like you don't really respect my concerns. It trivializes them. I'm not trying to be negative. I LIKE this book which is why I really wish that Lois was deemed worthy of being a more active part of it. I think she has earned that. That's all I'm saying.
    Imagine how Jimmy Olsen fans feel :P

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    There is a frustration inherent in the bi-weekly format: it feels like two comics, because there are physically two comics, but really it's more like one. There is a very noticeable amount of decompression and the 2-parters don't cover a lot of ground with plot, setting, etc. There are technically very many issues that have gone by without much at all concerning Lois or Metropolis, but the seeds are there and the plot is clearly underway.

    I'm not sure if people are really getting on this much: Superboy is public?
    The problem is my faith is shaken in this office. I want to believe that they have plans for her and value her (and I think Jurgens does)but we are coming off like a 6 year time period where she was very marginalized. So it's hard to just have faith they are going to fix this because I don't think this creative team has shown us yet that they really value her and I think that's evidenced in how often they miss opportunities to use her. That's just how I feel. I'm sorry. I don't think these guys have earned my blind faith yet with this woman. I hope they do though.

    I noticed the thing with Superboy too and I found it odd.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man_of_Tomorrow View Post
    Imagine how Jimmy Olsen fans feel :P
    I miss Jimmy too. But Jimmy was, arguably, not abused as badly during the new 52 as Lois was. And Jimmy is not Jon's mother. So you can sort of argue that maybe it's not time for him yet while they are still on the farm but it's harder to argue that Lois---this child'a mother---shouldn't be given some more consideration and POV . You know? But yes. I miss Jimmy too.

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    I'm here only for Damian/Jon interactions so maybe I'll just repeat someone else, but am I the only one who doesn't really like Gleason draws Lois? I really love his art, but his Lois is just off to me.

  12. #42
    So much HYPE dawg! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    I'm not sure if people are really getting on this much: Superboy is public?
    At this point, I'm just chalking it up to Reborn's events. The same way Jon is now fully part of the world, I'd say Superboy is now a known figure....in at least Hamilton.

    He's still a pretty new figure though since Tomasi and Gleason's first arc is still there.

    I think it's pretty cool honestly. We haven't had a Superboy that's known to the public since like pre-52.

  13. #43
    Astonishing Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I'm here only for Damian/Jon interactions so maybe I'll just repeat someone else, but am I the only one who doesn't really like Gleason draws Lois? I really love his art, but his Lois is just off to me.
    I don't know, if I've forced my eyes to get used to Gleason's art a while ago so I can't tell anymore when things look off with his art.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    I don't know, if I've forced my eyes to get used to Gleason's art a while ago so I can't tell anymore when things look off with his art.
    His art is not my preference as it's a little "doll like" and it's weird but I don't hate it. Like you, I think I've just accepted it.

  15. #45
    So much HYPE dawg! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    I miss Jimmy too. But Jimmy was, arguably, not abused as badly during the new 52 as Lois was. And Jimmy is not Jon's mother. So you can sort of argue that maybe it's not time for him yet while they are still on the farm but it's harder to argue that Lois---this child'a mother---shouldn't be given some more consideration and POV . You know? But yes. I miss Jimmy too.
    I know, I myself have been pretty vocal about the lack of use Jimmy has been getting for the past 6 years (honestly longer). I was even pretty hyped for the idea that Jimmy was gonna be part of the Supergirl show (overlooking the fact that they went far to "leading man" with him) but they ended up stripping him of most things that people recognize as being unique to him outside of his friendship with Superman and his camera. Then they just said f#ck it and turned him into a superhero and completely missed the point.

    So, I get some of the frustration. Granted Jimmy isn't the main female voice in the comic that isn't being given it's due, but the deliberate shying away is all the same.

    You're issues and problems with this are valid.

    Up next in Superman we've got a family vacation arc coming and I'm sure Lois will be involved since it doesn't say "father/son vacation" so there's a very good chance that this is where we'll see them acting as more of a unit. That's the Achilles heel of Tomasi and Gleason's Superman book so far: they have issues with having the family work as a unit. But they can write and characterize them well as individuals, and even give each a cool moment. It's just getting it all together.

    As I've said before it really comes down to the fact that Lois and Jimmy aren't superheroes. In today's market where people are being introduced to comics via the hyper simplified format of a superhero movie, you have less time to enjoy the more subtle charm of Lois' rough and tumble action reporting, or Jimmy's inherent weirdness magnet. They aren't overt action heroes. This is why you get wrongheaded choices like turning Jimmy into a costumed hero to up his relevance in a show.

    But I think Tomasi and Gleason specifically need to be thinking more along the lines of Jonny Quest and Doctor Who in terms of how the use the Superman Family as a unit. Not everyone on Team Quest is Race (the very capable muscle) but they all get there time contributing to the unit and be part of the story. They're given temporary boost in ability via Dr. Quest's inventions or taking something from a foe. The same is true for Doctor Who. The Doctor's friends aren't anywhere near as smart as he is, but they are allowed to contribute greatly just based on being who they are as people.

    Ideally Tomasi and Gleason should take the scope of Doctor Who and transplant into the family dynamic and action of Jonny Quest, then they've got a stronger Superman book, I feel. Then they'll be able to better utilize characters like Lois and Jimmy--who are less conventional in their heroics--this way. I may really really enjoying the book, but there's always room for improvement, and I think this team has the inherent sensibilities and tools to really really pull it off.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 04-19-2017 at 02:21 PM.

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