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  1. #61
    Astonishing Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Things Fall Apart View Post
    It's going to prove a mistake not to include the Sam Wilson books. This is a Cap story and ultimately Sam Wilson will be the primary hero of this.
    I am not as sure as some people are. He may or may not be pivotal, but there is an equal possibility that readers will think "where was Sam?" at the end of this event. This isn't necessarily a redemption arc. It could be a genuine case of a hero being ground down and out by his secret adversary. While I would like to think he will come back punching, it could be a case of poignant and heart rending defeat. We will see.

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    So I've went through all the most important books related to the event, and this is probably the most complete order I could come up with (probably missing a few things). I bolded the most important ones, while the others aren't as necessary.
    Wow. I considered doing a list and thought 'nah, argue with people on the forums for a bit then go have a drink'. Kudos.

  3. #63
    Bishop was right. Sighphi's Avatar
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    so everyone likes events again?

    You heard them , Marvel! Kick up the event lineup for next year!

    Secret Hulkpire! Hulk has been cosmic cubed into being Maestro all along!

    Secret Thorpire! Thor has been cosmic cubed into not being Thor so that's why he cant pick up the hammer!

    Secret Guardians of the Galaxy Empire! GotG have been soul gemed into being like the movie versions and now they must be saved and returned to the DnA versions.

  4. #64
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sighphi View Post
    so everyone likes events again?

    You heard them , Marvel! Kick up the event lineup for next year!

    Secret Hulkpire! Hulk has been cosmic cubed into being Maestro all along!

    Secret Thorpire! Thor has been cosmic cubed into not being Thor so that's why he cant pick up the hammer!

    Secret Guardians of the Galaxy Empire! GotG have been soul gemed into being like the movie versions and now they must be saved and returned to the DnA versions.
    I never bought the idea of event fatigue. An event is just a story, and if they like the story they'll like the event. If they don't then they don't.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sighphi View Post
    so everyone likes events again?

    You heard them , Marvel! Kick up the event lineup for next year!

    Secret Hulkpire! Hulk has been cosmic cubed into being Maestro all along!

    Secret Thorpire! Thor has been cosmic cubed into not being Thor so that's why he cant pick up the hammer!

    Secret Guardians of the Galaxy Empire! GotG have been soul gemed into being like the movie versions and now they must be saved and returned to the DnA versions.
    I love events when they are done well. Spencer knows how to do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
    Because its fun, not as fun as the liberal meltdown but close
    11/10/2016

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    One thing I think was missing in SE #0 was how this crisis started. WE are just flung into a situation where 3 events are going on at the same time, but I would have liked to have it start as an ordinary day at SHIELD, and Steve Rogers give the signal to the Chitauri wave, then the Masters of Evil, then the Sokovian Hydra, all to start their actions at precisely the same time. Instead, we miss out on that little triviality it seems.

    I echo others who have trouble understanding the prologue few pages by Rob Reis. It all happened too fast with little explanation about why SPEAR HQ is in Japan, why it seems there are SHIELD Rome personel in the HQ, and why Nostradamus is in Japan and not Italy in 1945? Then, we are apprised with Kraken being a person Steve Rogers knows, but we don't appear to have been informed as far as I remember. But somehow, Hydra has been made aware the Allied camp have a Cosmic Cube, and are right now about to use it, so get ready Steve? This tells us that Reality has in fact been changed, as Nostradamus says in his prediction, and it has stayed changed until the very moment Steve becomes Director of SHIELD, the opposition of SPEAR, supposedly. This is new news to us. We thought Kobik only changed Steves memories, but now it seems, a lot has been changed besides Steves memories. It seems history is now that Hydra were about to win WWII, and sabotaged by a Cosmic Cube, so that the Western World were living a lie, having manufactured their world so they won. So Steve Rogers had been biding his time as a Secret Agent for Hydra the whole of history since 1945 when the Cosmic Cube changed history and only Steve knew, because he was put into the pool.

    The loose ends to this are still making this vague. The vague prehistory to Hydra Cap with Elisa Sinclair and Steves mum and dad in 1922 onwards set up just Steves softness as a Hydra agent. Steves real challenge is to have matured enough in the interim from 1945 to 2017, that Steve is more than capable enough to pull this whole Secret Empire thing off. We now have to imagine that all of ANAD has just been under the influence of the Cosmic Cube, and that Maria Hill changed the Cosmic Cube into Kobik just recently, the result of which led to Steves ascension to DoS. The catalyst to this all happening is Maria Hills interference in the vital Cosmic Cube that started all this. You would think the authorities would have made it vitally important not to mess with the Cosmic Cube, (so that the Change the Allies did to reality in 1945), to make them win wouldn't be reversed. There had to be somebody from back in the day in 1945, who was the gatekeeper of the Cosmic Cube, would notice a reversal was about to happen, and it return reality to Hydra winning WWII.
    Daniel Whitehall/Kraken has been a recurring character in Steve's solo book. he's the principal, for lack of a better word, of the school that indoctrinates young Steve into Hydra. as Kraken, he takes Steve aside and gives him Hydra's mission statement. every time you hear Steve talk about no man being over another and order through strength, that's Kraken speaking through him. he was previously seen as part of the Wheel in Hickman's Secret Warriors book. it's what I love about this event. Spencer is pulling from all of the right places. I did a double take when Newton showed up. I think he's been the big bad in Doctor Strange's most recent story arc; that I now have to pick up.
    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
    Because its fun, not as fun as the liberal meltdown but close
    11/10/2016

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I'm sure plenty of people will be mad at Steve, but really it's not his fault. He didn't ask to be manipuled by a cosmic cube. He's a victim too.
    Which is a big part of the reason, though certainly not the only one, why this whole storyline fails imo and is not remotely compelling for me.

  8. #68
    Mighty Member rui no onna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I never bought the idea of event fatigue. An event is just a story, and if they like the story they'll like the event. If they don't then they don't.
    I'm guessing it's not the events per se but also the damage to the wallet trying to figure out and purchase the tie-ins that are actually relevant/necessary to the story.

    April 2017: 4 titles - $16.96 (SE #0 of 9 + Opening Salvo, but there were other related titles)
    May 2017: 13 titles - $54.87 (SE #1-3 of 9 + tie-ins)
    June 2017: 17 titles - $69.83 (SE #4-5 of 9 + tie-ins)
    July 2017: 17 titles - $68.83 (SE #6-7 of 9 + tie-ins)

    I reckon if one only reads via Marvel Unlimited, event fatigue wouldn't be an issue.

    Part of the reason I'm receptive to Secret Empire is 1) Marvel is bringing back digital copies with SE #1 which I'm very happy with, and 2) Marvel has pretty much cancelled all the remaining titles on my pull list so I do have *some* free funds.
    Last edited by rui no onna; 04-20-2017 at 12:23 PM.
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  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    Which is a big part of the reason, though certainly not the only one, why this whole storyline fails imo and is not remotely compelling for me.
    nothing would have satisfied you.
    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
    Because its fun, not as fun as the liberal meltdown but close
    11/10/2016

  10. #70
    Incredible Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rui no onna View Post
    I'm guessing it's not the events per se but also the damage to the wallet trying to figure out and purchase the tie-ins that are actually relevant/necessary to the story.

    April 2017: 4 titles - $16.96 (SE #0 of 9 + Opening Salvo, but there were other related titles)
    May 2017: 13 titles - $54.87 (SE #1-3 of 9 + tie-ins)
    June 2017: 17 titles - $69.83 (SE #4-5 of 9 + tie-ins)
    July 2017: 17 titles - $68.83 (SE #6-7 of 9 + tie-ins)

    I reckon if one only reads via Marvel Unlimited, event fatigue wouldn't be an issue.

    Part of the reason I'm receptive to Secret Empire is 1) Marvel is bringing back digital copies with SE #1 which I'm very happy with, and 2) Marvel has pretty much cancelled all the remaining titles on my pull list so I do have *some* free funds.
    Also, it's nothing huge, but I noticed that other than issues 0, 1, & 2 of Secret Empire, all the rest of the issues are the standard $4, which to me does help out a lot. I know Civil War II probably didn't benefit at all from each of the issues being $5-6.
    Current Reading List: Sonic The Hedgehog, Sonic Universe, Batman/TMNT Adventures, Spider-Gwen, Unbelievable Gwenpool, Hawkeye, Hulk, U.S.Avengers, Amazing Spider-Man, Secret Empire, Secret Warriors, I Am Groot
    Future: Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man, Edge Of Venomverse
    DC: Batman, The Flash, Green Lanterns, Batgirl, Superman, Suicide Squad

  11. #71
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rui no onna View Post
    I'm guessing it's not the events per se but also the damage to the wallet trying to figure out and purchase the tie-ins that are actually relevant/necessary to the story.

    April 2017: 4 titles - $16.96 (SE #0 of 9 + Opening Salvo, but there were other related titles)
    May 2017: 13 titles - $54.87 (SE #1-3 of 9 + tie-ins)
    June 2017: 17 titles - $69.83 (SE #4-5 of 9 + tie-ins)
    July 2017: 17 titles - $68.83 (SE #6-7 of 9 + tie-ins)

    I reckon if one only reads via Marvel Unlimited, event fatigue wouldn't be an issue.

    Part of the reason I'm receptive to Secret Empire is 1) Marvel is bringing back digital copies with SE #1 which I'm very happy with, and 2) Marvel has pretty much cancelled all the remaining titles on my pull list so I do have *some* free funds.
    Yeah these things can be pricey if one buys everything. Not that you gave to buy everything, but when an event is handled really well (like this one) there's a lot of good stuff out there.

  12. #72
    Astonishing Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Personally I really enjoyed this as someone who read all the series building up to this. The best analogy I've heard from a review is watching someone set up an amazing domino display and then we finally get to see them knocked down in spectacular fashion. It was just very well written and you really get a sense for how serious things are and how much worse things are gonna get.

    Also going to the event fatigue...I think this one is different then other events where we've been following it's set up until we reached this point in various series while some of the more recent ones just kind of started with no real build up.So it isn't really an event more of an organic expansion on what we've already been seeing.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
    Words to live by.

  13. #73
    Astonishing Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    Personally I really enjoyed this as someone who read all the series building up to this. The best analogy I've heard from a review is watching someone set up an amazing domino display and then we finally get to see them knocked down in spectacular fashion. It was just very well written and you really get a sense for how serious things are and how much worse things are gonna get.

    Also going to the event fatigue...I think this one is different then other events where we've been following it's set up until we reached this point in various series while some of the more recent ones just kind of started with no real build up.So it isn't really an event more of an organic expansion on what we've already been seeing.
    Indeed Spencer didn't originally plan it to be an event, it just developed to the point where he ended up pitching it as an event because it needed to be. If all events were this necessary I don't think we would be particularly bothered by them.

  14. #74
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    Great start to a Marvel event.
    Unlike Bendis events (like Civil War 2), has roots carefully sowed in earlier Captain America issues as opposed to creating a macguffin out of thin air to create conflict. If you followed the Captain America (Steve Rogers) solo series, everything here makes sense. Steve Rogers has carefully orchestrated everything he could control. He makes a truly awesome villain, since we know he is the best at winning and, because of Kobik, he is totally committed to what he thinks is right. There doesn't seem to be any out for the good guys until the Miles Morales - Ulysses prediction comes to pass. I wonder if that happens at the end of Secret Empire, or at the midpoint of the event, whereafter they bring back the good guy Steve Rogers to fix things.

    Loved the connection with Hickman's SHIELD series. I really do hope they release the remaining issues in that series.

    All the characterizations seem to make sense and fit with their characters. One nitpick I have with Spencer's writing is that he enjoys using an excessive amount of narration from an unknown narrator. I had the same issue when he was writing Avengers World, where I couldn't make sense of what character's point of view he was speaking from.

  15. #75
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    Daniel Whitehall/Kraken has been a recurring character in Steve's solo book. he's the principal, for lack of a better word, of the school that indoctrinates young Steve into Hydra. as Kraken, he takes Steve aside and gives him Hydra's mission statement. every time you hear Steve talk about no man being over another and order through strength, that's Kraken speaking through him. he was previously seen as part of the Wheel in Hickman's Secret Warriors book. it's what I love about this event. Spencer is pulling from all of the right places. I did a double take when Newton showed up. I think he's been the big bad in Doctor Strange's most recent story arc; that I now have to pick up.
    Thanks Michael Watkins. So Whitehall appeared in the earlier Steve Rogers books in the flashbacks to the 1940's?

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