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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member Ianbarreilles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    No way Hill dies off-panel.

    Not even remotely possible, so don't worry - she's fine.
    Good I hope not lol that would be such a disappointment if that is what happened hopefully we'll soon find out about Maria's fate since it's really a mystery as it stands but I'm assuming she survives but she's probably being captured by Stevie's goons probably to prevent Maria from running his plans and letting the world know the truth.

  2. #77
    Incredible Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I'm sure plenty of people will be mad at Steve, but really it's not his fault. He didn't ask to be manipuled by a cosmic cube. He's a victim too.
    And that is the saddest thing of all, and why i don't think Steve is coming back from this, i mean this wasn't just him trying to kill his teammates and friends. This was him laying out the foundation for what is the most emotionally and crippling blow ever to hit them because it is Steve Rogers, a man they all love and respect who is doing this to them. He has killed people close to him, he has manipulated people close to them, he has destroyed lives and even if this ends with him being returned to normal there is no going back...i cannot conceive a way to redeem him after this so i very much think that the vision of him dying at the hands of Miles is the end game here.

    We all know the beginning of this saga and we know a very likely ending, we are now caught in the flow of how we go from point A to B and there is no turning back. The Steve we know and love isn't coming back, i can feel it in my bones.

    I know the heroes will find someway to win but at the end of this i can't see what the Marvel Universe will be afterwards after such a devastating blow.

  3. #78
    Incredible Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianbarreilles View Post
    I hope Carol punishes Steve at the end of the story she needs to put him in his place for trying to manipulate her and getting people killed then say YAS QUEEN!

    Controversial opinion but Steve got more people killed since standoff ended then Carol ever did during civil war ii I don't know why I'm turning this into a Carol was right argument but I am lol.
    I don't think Carol is the one to look out for in this, yes she is a player in this but the one i think it comes down to is Sam. Basically Captain America VS the forces of HYDRA, because Steve says the title of Captain America is a symbol of Hope and he has had Sam doubt his role in this so the only thing left for him to do is pick himself up and prove he is worthy of the shield, name and uniform by leading the heroes against the one man they never thought thy would have to face off against.

  4. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    And that is the saddest thing of all, and why i don't think Steve is coming back from this, i mean this wasn't just him trying to kill his teammates and friends. This was him laying out the foundation for what is the most emotionally and crippling blow ever to hit them because it is Steve Rogers, a man they all love and respect who is doing this to them. He has killed people close to him, he has manipulated people close to them, he has destroyed lives and even if this ends with him being returned to normal there is no going back...i cannot conceive a way to redeem him after this so i very much think that the vision of him dying at the hands of Miles is the end game here.

    We all know the beginning of this saga and we know a very likely ending, we are now caught in the flow of how we go from point A to B and there is no turning back. The Steve we know and love isn't coming back, i can feel it in my bones.
    would you like to put money on it?
    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
    Because its fun, not as fun as the liberal meltdown but close
    11/10/2016

  5. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    Thanks Michael Watkins. So Whitehall appeared in the earlier Steve Rogers books in the flashbacks to the 1940's?
    indeed. I only know because, once the story started to get interesting, I tracked down all of the previous issues and reread Secret Warriors. I still totally didn't see the Isaac Newton stuff coming. it's also important to keep in mind that the most recent Kraken introduced may or may not be Whitehall. my personal fan theory is that it's Leopold/Ian (Steve's adopted son from Dimension Z & the Hail Hydra mini).


    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
    Because its fun, not as fun as the liberal meltdown but close
    11/10/2016

  6. #81

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    in reference to Steve's mother and partially wearing the Kraken armor... (forgive the size - I don't have a scanner)

    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
    Because its fun, not as fun as the liberal meltdown but close
    11/10/2016

  7. #82
    Fantastic Member KingsLeadHat's Avatar
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    As much as I dislike the premise of this story, I think it's incredibly naive to think that the classic Steve Roger's isn't going to come back at some point. The sensationalism of this story-line is leading me to think that Marvel may very well be getting ready to do their own Rebirth soon. "Let's go out with a bang with our most respected character and restart this shit." This also shows that there is little to no crossover with the films, sadly, because in the MCU we're getting nothing short of classic Cap.

  8. #83
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    And that is the saddest thing of all, and why i don't think Steve is coming back from this, i mean this wasn't just him trying to kill his teammates and friends. This was him laying out the foundation for what is the most emotionally and crippling blow ever to hit them because it is Steve Rogers, a man they all love and respect who is doing this to them. He has killed people close to him, he has manipulated people close to them, he has destroyed lives and even if this ends with him being returned to normal there is no going back...i cannot conceive a way to redeem him after this so i very much think that the vision of him dying at the hands of Miles is the end game here.

    We all know the beginning of this saga and we know a very likely ending, we are now caught in the flow of how we go from point A to B and there is no turning back. The Steve we know and love isn't coming back, i can feel it in my bones.

    I know the heroes will find someway to win but at the end of this i can't see what the Marvel Universe will be afterwards after such a devastating blow.
    Honestly I don't think he needs THAT much redemption because again it's not his fault. He's the victim.

    That's not to say that many won't understandably be mad at him or that he won't feel incredibly guilty for what happened, but because it wasn't his fault I think it'll just take some time for all parties to get over this and move on.

  9. #84
    Astonishing Member Ianbarreilles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Honestly I don't think he needs THAT much redemption because again it's not his fault. He's the victim.

    That's not to say that many won't understandably be mad at him or that he won't feel incredibly guilty for what happened, but because it wasn't his fault I think it'll just take some time for all parties to get over this and move on.
    You have a point but what about all those people he's killed since the jack flag incident and civil war ii onwards?.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianbarreilles View Post
    You have a point but what about all those people he's killed since the jack flag incident and civil war ii onwards?.
    Others will probably forgive Steve faster than he'll forgive himself. Even though he didn't have a direct hand in what happened to Bucky in the latest Cap issue, if that really is the end of Bucky, it's going to torment Steve forever if he's back in his right mind.

  11. #86
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    I don't know how much I believe that Steve is a victim. He's not brainwashed. He's making choices. He's still lived all these experiences with the Avengers. He still knows Hydra does terrible things. He just doesn't care.

    This is genuinely who Steve would have been had Hydra got to him when he was young. Kobik just made it happen.

  12. #87

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    Man ive been gone a long time, but i just gotta say. i honestly think like Sam, Tony will have a big part in bringing Steve down. Forgive me if im missing parts of the story and please correct me if im wrong, but did Steve have any part of Tony being in a coma? Makes sense he would want Tony out of the picture when he makes the big reveal. And where is Thor Odinson? This would effect him big time.

  13. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Namor'sWrath View Post
    I don't know how much I believe that Steve is a victim. He's not brainwashed. He's making choices. He's still lived all these experiences with the Avengers. He still knows Hydra does terrible things. He just doesn't care.

    This is genuinely who Steve would have been had Hydra got to him when he was young. Kobik just made it happen.
    exactly. but that's not a knock against Steve. it just makes him a real human being; instead of the second coming of jesus. it paints his transformation into classic Captain America as an extremely important event. other characters toggle between hero and anti-hero. but Steve is unwavering when he commits to a cause; whether it be good or bad. and those qualities made him important enough to move time and space (at least the interpretation of time and space) for. there's a reason why Steve is being corrupted instead of Tony Stark. he's the only one who could have kneeled in front of the Red Skull; patiently waiting decades for the time to strike.
    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
    Because its fun, not as fun as the liberal meltdown but close
    11/10/2016

  14. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindcrime0069 View Post
    Man ive been gone a long time, but i just gotta say. i honestly think like Sam, Tony will have a big part in bringing Steve down. Forgive me if im missing parts of the story and please correct me if im wrong, but did Steve have any part of Tony being in a coma? Makes sense he would want Tony out of the picture when he makes the big reveal. And where is Thor Odinson? This would effect him big time.
    he didn't play any direct hand in Stark being injured. but he took full advantage of the division in the ranks of superherodom. Stark's dead because he and Carol are control freaks (w/ messiah complexes).
    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
    Because its fun, not as fun as the liberal meltdown but close
    11/10/2016

  15. #90
    Astonishing Member Ianbarreilles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    he didn't play any direct hand in Stark being injured. but he took full advantage of the division in the ranks of superherodom. Stark's dead because he and Carol are control freaks (w/ messiah complexes).
    Carol wasn't a control freak nor did she have a messiah complex as you call it you're just a hater.

    Literally none of the critics of carols actions during civil war ii make criticisms that are founded or even grounded in facts there's not a single instance of her being a control freak or having a messiah complex as you call it its the same people who say Carol was being a government yes woman or government stooge there's no basis in those assumptions and nothing in civil war ii and its various tie ins support these criticisms.

    And stark got himself put in a coma because he wanted to start a fight just because? Really Carol putting miles into custody for questioning wasn't really a good enough reason for tony to attack her and start a fight him being out in a coma was completely his own doing she was acting in self defense by putting him in a coma and she was justified too tony had no reason to atatck and she told him to stand down and he refused so she was forced not only to defend herself but to put tony down by force.

    I can't tell you how disheartening it is to see when readers say things about Carol and say oh Carol is this or that for civil war ii when it's simply not even true.
    Last edited by Ianbarreilles; 04-20-2017 at 08:56 PM.

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