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  1. #241

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    It's so weird but I was one of the people moaning that DC (and Marvel) should stop tweaking their established characters to fit some diversity agenda and instead just create new ones that don't come with the baggage of having to live up to a legacy. The problem is, I'm kind of a moron so I'm not exactly sure how this thing will do.

    But here's another thing that keeps popping in my head. If anyone ever worked for McDonald's, they may have heard this, but someone did the calculation that the average customer spends about $35,000 in their lifetime on fast food. So McD's tells its workers to treat everyone who walks in as if they're worth $35,000 (instead of just a $5 burger meal). Sometimes... maybe more often... DC has treated its "old fanbase" like a fast food meal. Disposable. I'd be more worried when no one is bitching, cause that means a lot of fans went on a diet. Anyway, did I say I was a moron?
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  2. #242
    Elder Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryComicBookNerd View Post
    But here's another thing that keeps popping in my head. If anyone ever worked for McDonald's, they may have heard this, but someone did the calculation that the average customer spends about $35,000 in their lifetime on fast food. So McD's tells its workers to treat everyone who walks in as if they're worth $35,000 (instead of just a $5 burger meal). Sometimes... maybe more often... DC has treated its "old fanbase" like a fast food meal. Disposable. I'd be more worried when no one is bitching, cause that means a lot of fans went on a diet. Anyway, did I say I was a moron?
    Sometimes I think the problem is that DC spent too much time over the years catering only to us older fans. DC and nostalgia go hand in hand, and that's created a gap between DC's established fans and the potential fans DC keeps trying to catch up with (here's a hint; it's not 1992). One group likes it the way it is, the other group either doesn't, or hasn't been enticed to even try it. Neither group is going to agree on much, so DC's caught themselves in a mean little trap.

    They try to break new ground about every decade, and practically wipe the board in their scramble to be hip and trendy, throwing everything into some weird new direction everyone knows will last a year at the most. And because they jump off a cliff doing it, it never catches on, and they end up scrambling to put things back in shape to get the established fans back on board.

    Though I will say, since 2011 there's been a near constant effort to break into new territory. Say what you will for its execution, but the New52 threw a ton of weird/new books at the wall for years, DCYOU was nothing *but* that (again, part of their over-reaction problem) and this new batch of imprints is doing it today. While they might not be great at doing it (yet), I applaud DC for trying. And I hope they never stop never stopping. They need that new blood, us old bastards aren't gonna be around forever y'know. But damn, I wish their management was a little smoother.
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  3. #243
    Veteran Member rui no onna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Though I will say, since 2011 there's been a near constant effort to break into new territory. Say what you will for its execution, but the New52 threw a ton of weird/new books at the wall for years, DCYOU was nothing *but* that (again, part of their over-reaction problem) and this new batch of imprints is doing it today. While they might not be great at doing it (yet), I applaud DC for trying. And I hope they never stop never stopping. They need that new blood, us old bastards aren't gonna be around forever y'know. But damn, I wish their management was a little smoother.
    DC Unlimited.

    Comics pricing is a big issue they need to somehow address. Since DC owns their IP, has an extensive back catalog and instant consumer recognition similar to Marvel, they're in a unique position to actually be able to offer an unlimited digital subscription service and profit from it.

    There's a lot to be said for the Netflix model. Amazon Prime is pretty much the only reason Amazon makes profit from their retail operations. Even Microsoft Office and Adobe are switching to subscriptions.

    Easiest way? Piggyback on Amazon's existing infrastructure. No/minimal startup and overhead costs and gives DC the added benefit of reaching millions of Kindle Fire tablet owners already predisposed to reading. Afaik, Marvel Unlimited isn't available on the Kindle. Downside? Amazon takes a cut of the profits.
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  4. #244
    Veteran Member Robotman's Avatar
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    I'm actually excited about this experiment. A bunch of "big name" creators trying to come up with brand new characters and concepts. Traditional this hasn't worked out well. Think Bloodlines. But even with Bloodlines we ended up with Hitman. So if one of these new characters is anywhere as insteresting as Hitman I'd say it was worth it. Plus DC is listening to fans who would rather see new heroes who happen to be POC or women created instead of just replacing existing white heroes.
    If one of these new creations happens to find some success DC will have to grow the character over time. I think Blue Beetle, Jamie Reyes is a good example. Probably DC's only semi-successful newer character in years. The solo comic doesn't sell well at all (but comics not labeled "Bat" or "Super" don't survive long in the current market) but they introduced the character to younger fans through other media. Having him appear on Batman: Brave and the Bold, Young Justice, Smallville, and a number of video games has made him rather popular with kids and newer fans. I have a Blue Beetle tattoo and I'm always amazed by how many people know who he is.

  5. #245
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    DC DOESN'T NEED ANY NEW HEROES.they have hundred's in LIMBO that hasn't been utilize in the new 52 or REBIRTH.

  6. #246

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Sometimes I think the problem is that DC spent too much time over the years catering only to us older fans. DC and nostalgia go hand in hand, and that's created a gap between DC's established fans and the potential fans DC keeps trying to catch up with (here's a hint; it's not 1992). One group likes it the way it is, the other group either doesn't, or hasn't been enticed to even try it. Neither group is going to agree on much, so DC's caught themselves in a mean little trap.

    They try to break new ground about every decade, and practically wipe the board in their scramble to be hip and trendy, throwing everything into some weird new direction everyone knows will last a year at the most. And because they jump off a cliff doing it, it never catches on, and they end up scrambling to put things back in shape to get the established fans back on board.

    Though I will say, since 2011 there's been a near constant effort to break into new territory. Say what you will for its execution, but the New52 threw a ton of weird/new books at the wall for years, DCYOU was nothing *but* that (again, part of their over-reaction problem) and this new batch of imprints is doing it today. While they might not be great at doing it (yet), I applaud DC for trying. And I hope they never stop never stopping. They need that new blood, us old bastards aren't gonna be around forever y'know. But damn, I wish their management was a little smoother.
    The older fanbase is the life blood of the big two. They are the whales. They are the ones who go to comicons ONLY for the comics. They are the ones who walk into a smelly comic book store every wednesday and buy comics like Flash and Avengers and Batman just because of the title on the cover. These are the people DC should be catering to.

    Should they only be catering to the old fanbase? Hell no. But where the New52 and others like it failed was when they wiped out good chunks of continuity as a big frog you to their most loyal customers. It wasn't just Wonder Woman's tights or Supe's red undies, core aspects of major characters were changed seemingly for the sake of change. You can argue some changes were good. I'd ask why it had to be an across the board move? Lot's of characters didn't need fixing. You can't tell me Lobo was an improvement.

    DC thought the old fanbase were sheep who would blindly accept the new comics while at the same time new readers would come aboard. Neither happened. It pretty much came off as the middle aged man trying to act hip by riding a skateboard in front of his teenage kids. The lesson is: Break into new territory, but don't alienate your most loyal customers in the process.

    Side note: DC could give zero frogs about diversity. They are a corporation with balance sheets and shareholders. They would publish Nazi manifestos if they knew it would make them money. So as these new books start coming out, let's all keep an eye out for the ones that are really well done, and the ones that are just a money grab.
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  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Sometimes I think the problem is that DC spent too much time over the years catering only to us older fans. DC and nostalgia go hand in hand, and that's created a gap between DC's established fans and the potential fans DC keeps trying to catch up with (here's a hint; it's not 1992). One group likes it the way it is, the other group either doesn't, or hasn't been enticed to even try it. Neither group is going to agree on much, so DC's caught themselves in a mean little trap.

    They try to break new ground about every decade, and practically wipe the board in their scramble to be hip and trendy, throwing everything into some weird new direction everyone knows will last a year at the most. And because they jump off a cliff doing it, it never catches on, and they end up scrambling to put things back in shape to get the established fans back on board.

    Though I will say, since 2011 there's been a near constant effort to break into new territory. Say what you will for its execution, but the New52 threw a ton of weird/new books at the wall for years, DCYOU was nothing *but* that (again, part of their over-reaction problem) and this new batch of imprints is doing it today. While they might not be great at doing it (yet), I applaud DC for trying. And I hope they never stop never stopping. They need that new blood, us old bastards aren't gonna be around forever y'know. But damn, I wish their management was a little smoother.
    A billion times this. The 30-50 something straight dudes that are a good chunk of the market right now aren't going to be around forever. The industry has to adapt and try new things or eventually die.

    Here's another thought, though: what if a lot of creators today have absolutely no interest in working on whatever obscuro character that hasn't been seen in seven years? Also, what if they didn't try this new initiative and STILL kept those characters on the shelf completely unused? Would that be better? Or worse, brought them back in entirely crappy stories only to be unceremoniously killed off or turned evil, making them even MORE toxic?
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  8. #248
    Senior Member kurenai24's Avatar
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    I will only be checking out Sideways.

    Quote Originally Posted by scribbleMind View Post
    Meanwhile, I'm just sitting here waiting for that Milestone line announced two years ago...
    Lol, that was exactly my first thought, but this lets people know where DC's priorities are and who is really dragging their feet.
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  9. #249
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    I'm amused that a lot of people are thinking in either/or terms.

    Multiple ways to increase sales, introduced in multiple waves.

    Why is this a problem for people?

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwangung View Post
    I'm amused that a lot of people are thinking in either/or terms.

    Multiple ways to increase sales, introduced in multiple waves.

    Why is this a problem for people?
    Folks want BOTH ways.

    The issue is the folks in charge don't understand this.

    For far too long at Dc it has been you will like who WE want and there will be no competition.

    At Marvel no one is having to choose between Miles or Peter. They get BOTH.

    At DC if you want a black lead book it's Cyborg and that is it. Remember when his first run came out you had NO black lead ongoings at the big two. In fact unless you counted the biracial Malcolm Dragon in Savage Dragon and the black guy in Rivers of London-there were none active in comics.



    They need that new blood, us old bastards aren't gonna be around forever y'know. But damn, I wish their management was a little smoother.
    It's PASTTTTTTTTTTTT time to let go of Diamond and comic book stores. They are the issue.

    Guys like Static, Jaime and others can't get to stage two because a comic book store stands in the way.

    Look at Moon Girl at Marvel-they gave her trades to Scholastic-she sells.

    Squirrel Girl-low floppy seller but like Ms Marvel was on the New York Times best sellers list.

    Look at the mess Marvel had with Bleedingcool store owners. If a minority, women & LGBT was on the cover it got ripped by them.

    How does one RIP Moon Girl, Mosaic, Prowler & Scarlet Witch-(new faces and establish guys getting shots) at Marvel then praise DC for Mother Panic, Cave Carson, Flintstones, Doom Patrol and Cyborg? Aren't they doing the same thing?

    How can you expect success when you have store owners screaming for books that only feature STRAIGHT WHITE MALES (AKA popular books)?

    Remove the comic book store. You want these books to make it-you have to leave the dino behind because you will never see the potential of certain properties as long as that comic book store fights it.

  11. #251
    Veteran Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kurenai24 View Post
    I'll will only be checking out Sideways.



    Lol, that was exactly my first thought, but this lets people know where DC's priorities are and who is really dragging their feet.
    Well this situation is favorable to them in a business sense. They can try to make their own diverse group of superheroes and not have to pay royalties to the Milestone founders.

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