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  1. #871
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I wonder how the digital sales are. I hate looking at direct market numbers now because that's only one slice of the pie these days. It might still be the biggest slice, but there's a lot of pie beyond the hobby shops, and if characters like Moon Girl, Ms. Marvel, etc., are anything to go by, the NAoH characters could very well find readers outside Diamond's numbers.
    Naturally DM sales need to be taken with a grain of salt and these books should all get the chance to at least get one trade out, but as I've said before, I don't think they'll be able to have the same kind of success as others because they lack a unique target demographic. Kids aren't going to flock to these books like they do Squirrel Girl and Ms. Marvel and they're all too generic on a surface level (I can't speak to their actual quality) to get the attention of readers who don't care about cape stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    For brand new characters without a Bat on their chest, these are about the level of floppy sales I expected though.
    I don't really get why this mindset remains. The Bat books in Rebirth dropped the ball hard. BoP was the third book cancelled from low sales, Batwoman (even with her major push in Rebirth and later start) and Batman Beyond are going to be gone in the current wave of cancellations and once the current wave is over, the lowest selling DCU titles (unless they decide not to mercy-kill Cyborg after Wolfman's done) will be Batgirl and RHatO. Being a Bat doesn't guarantee success anymore, nor to my knowledge has it ever.

  2. #872
    Mighty Member Korath's Avatar
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    I think that the mindset which seems to be prevalent at dc to promote the Trinity so much above the other heroes in comics may come to bite them in other medium, namely the DCEU real soon. After all, for the general audience, Elseworlds won't work as well as in comics. That's also why I would like the NAoH booxks and all those "minor" characters languishing in or near limbo to be revitalized. DC has hundred of B-list and below characters but usually fail to promote them, and in the long run it has to change IMHO.

  3. #873
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    I think that the mindset which seems to be prevalent at dc to promote the Trinity so much above the other heroes in comics may come to bite them in other medium, namely the DCEU real soon. After all, for the general audience, Elseworlds won't work as well as in comics. That's also why I would like the NAoH booxks and all those "minor" characters languishing in or near limbo to be revitalized. DC has hundred of B-list and below characters but usually fail to promote them, and in the long run it has to change IMHO.
    I think the only one of the Trinity they go overboard with is Batman. The other two don't get as much love as you'd think they'd get considering how important they should be. Superman especially, as we wouldn't even have a DC Comics without him. Wonder Woman got the film, but she still rarely gets anything else.

    Promoting the Trinity in the DCEU is also not what's biting them in the butt, the piss poor execution is. Had we gotten acclaimed and more successful films featuring Batman and Superman, the brand would be strong enough by now that they could expand to lower tier characters in addition to doing sequels and spin offs for those two. As it stands, Wonder Woman hasn't been a failure so promoting her worked out, but we are still in "wait and see" mode for Aquaman and Shazam.

  4. #874
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I think the only one of the Trinity they go overboard with is Batman. The other two don't get as much love as you'd think they'd get considering how important they should be. Superman especially, as we wouldn't even have a DC Comics without him. Wonder Woman got the film, but she still rarely gets anything else.

    Promoting the Trinity in the DCEU is also not what's biting them in the butt, the piss poor execution is. Had we gotten acclaimed and more successful films featuring Batman and Superman, the brand would be strong enough by now that they could expand to lower tier characters in addition to doing sequels and spin offs for those two. As it stands, Wonder Woman hasn't been a failure so promoting her worked out, but we are still in "wait and see" mode for Aquaman and Shazam.
    You might have a point with Wonder Woman but Superman? The guy with seven movies, three live action shows, four animated series, five animated movies and is a main lead in numerous other projects?

    While I agree with execution being an issue, I do also with Korath (and believe me that is a first) that maybe focusing on other properties besides Superman and Batman would do DC some good. If nothing else, there's less pressure from those fan bases.

  5. #875
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    You might have a point with Wonder Woman but Superman? The guy with seven movies, three live action shows, four animated series, five animated movies and is a main lead in numerous other projects?

    While I agree with execution being an issue, I do also with Korath (and believe me that is a first) that maybe focusing on other properties besides Superman and Batman would do DC some good. If nothing else, there's less pressure from those fan bases.
    That's not much comfort when the last true movie Superman had all to himself was incredibly divisive, and three ones preceding it were turds. And then had his planned trilogy for the new age of superhero cinema hijacked by Batman and the rest if the JL in an experiment that failed. Whereas a healthy cinematic Superman property would have at LEAST lead to a Supergirl movie, if not also a Steel and Legion one. Superman fans are not obligated to just be satisfied and not ask for more, especially when the offerings are mixed at best. That's not how any fandom works.

    They shouldn't have had to botch those two in order to focus on other properties. I think that's a very silly way to look at it, IMO, and anyway them failing with those characters now means the brand in general is too weak to slap it into any random property. They have to build it back up, and there is no guarantee yet that they won't continue to fuck up more. And it's not like many Batman or Superman fans actively wish for other properties to not get made, we want the while DC universe to thrive while also understandably wanting more of our favorites. No fan ever stops wishing for more stuff.

  6. #876
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I wonder how the digital sales are. I hate looking at direct market numbers now because that's only one slice of the pie these days. It might still be the biggest slice, but there's a lot of pie beyond the hobby shops, and if characters like Moon Girl, Ms. Marvel, etc., are anything to go by, the NAoH characters could very well find readers outside Diamond's numbers.
    Comicchron had one or two years agon a report where they showed the how much is sold va the different channels, according that report direct market and book stores is were most of the comics were sold, digital had still a relative small percentage.

    And if you take the comixology charts as representive for the digital market, the new books are also not that successful there. Silence on for example only 36 in the current charts (and these are weekly charts, so it is mostly only among the books that were also published this week), which is below Batgirl, Batman Beyond and Doom Patrol.

    Batman & the Signal made it at least on 23, but that's also not big success.

  7. #877
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    While I agree with execution being an issue, I do also with Korath (and believe me that is a first) that maybe focusing on other properties besides Superman and Batman would do DC some good. If nothing else, there's less pressure from those fan bases.
    The issue is Bat Jesus, Superman & WW do not need ANY promotion to move products. Same with Peter Parker and a few others at Marvel.

    I don't really get why this mindset remains. The Bat books in Rebirth dropped the ball hard. BoP was the third book cancelled from low sales, Batwoman (even with her major push in Rebirth and later start) and Batman Beyond are going to be gone in the current wave of cancellations and once the current wave is over, the lowest selling DCU titles (unless they decide not to mercy-kill Cyborg after Wolfman's done) will be Batgirl and RHatO. Being a Bat doesn't guarantee success anymore, nor to my knowledge has it ever
    What is guarantee under Batman (for most) it's USAGE & SHOTS.

    Cassandra, Tim, Jason, Duke, Luke, David Z, Batwoman, Babs, Stephanie, Chase, Michael Lane, Catwoman, Jean, A version of Huntress, We Are Robin, Gotham Central, Mother Panic, BOP, Damian, Ragman, Joker, Harley, Ivy, Freeze, Penguin and so many others-have befitted under the Bat brand.

    Under the Batman banner-a LOT of these guys had folks actually READ their books instead of doing the nonsense we saw with Marvel. Where it was hate whoever was on the cover and badmouth nonstop or burn the book.
    You can find folks with a thought out opinion about Duke instead folks making up stuff and attacking Riri Williams and Inhumans.

    What makes Batman different from the others is no ONE looked at Batman being only about HIM-they choose to show a world where Batman is the President and you see how his cabinet acts in different ways. With the Bat Office having no issue showing you all of them in action.

    That is the issue with Superman, WW, Flash, Aquaman, Arrow and ESPECIALLY Green Lantern.

    There is no Batman-you are the world's greatest detective worship-that ruins Green lantern with Hal is the greatest SCREW the rest especially John Stewart.
    There is no ERASE Dick, Jason & Tim because they are threats to Batman like Wally was deemed to Barry.
    There is no we can't TRY another Bat book like there is with WW & Aquaman.
    There is no Bat family is just Dick, Bab & Harley like there is with Superman being only him, Lois & Supergirl.

    Kids aren't going to flock to these books like they do Squirrel Girl and Ms. Marvel and they're all too generic on a surface level (I can't speak to their actual quality) to get the attention of readers who don't care about cape stuff.
    And how do you know that? Where is your data at? I have seen kids DESTROY dollar bins for MANY of the characters who get trashed on this message board daily.

    If I go by what they are looking for Wally West should be Flash, John or Kyle should be the main Green Lantern, Static, Tim, Cassandra, Conner, JSA & Legion should all have books & Aquaman sure does have a LOT of fans.

    Kids are WAY more open minded than adults.

  8. #878
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Comicchron had one or two years agon a report where they showed the how much is sold va the different channels, according that report direct market and book stores is were most of the comics were sold, digital had still a relative small percentage.

    And if you take the comixology charts as representive for the digital market, the new books are also not that successful there. Silence on for example only 36 in the current charts (and these are weekly charts, so it is mostly only among the books that were also published this week), which is below Batgirl, Batman Beyond and Doom Patrol.

    Batman & the Signal made it at least on 23, but that's also not big success.
    Lets see what Amazon Kindle says.

    The Terrific #3
    #3 in Kindle Store > Kindle Short Reads > 30 minutes (12-21 pages) > Comics & Graphic Novels
    #68 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Comics & Graphic Novels > Graphic Novels > Superheroes
    #79 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Comics & Graphic Novels > Superheroes

    Sideways #3
    #173 in Kindle Store > Kindle Short Reads > 45 minutes (22-32 pages) > Comics & Graphic Novels
    #863 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Comics & Graphic Novels > Graphic Novels > Superheroes
    #1067 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Comics & Graphic Novels > Superheroes

    Silencer #4
    #104 in Kindle Store > Kindle Short Reads > 45 minutes (22-32 pages) > Comics & Graphic Novels
    #627 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Comics & Graphic Novels > Graphic Novels > Superheroes
    #782 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Comics & Graphic Novels > Superheroes

    The Immortal Men #2
    #98 in Kindle Store > Kindle Short Reads > 45 minutes (22-32 pages) > Comics & Graphic Novels
    #590 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Comics & Graphic Novels > Graphic Novels > Superheroes
    #740 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Comics & Graphic Novels > Superheroes

    Batman & Signal #3 (The first two issues were top 10 when they came out)
    #123 in Kindle Store > Kindle Short Reads > 45 minutes (22-32 pages) > Comics & Graphic Novels
    #709 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Comics & Graphic Novels > Graphic Novels > Superheroes
    #885 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Comics & Graphic Novels > Superheroes

    Meanwhile
    Cyborg 21
    #744 in Kindle Store > Kindle Short Reads > 45 minutes (22-32 pages) > Comics & Graphic Novels
    #2520 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Comics & Graphic Novels > Graphic Novels > Superheroes
    #3475 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Comics & Graphic Novels > Superheroes

    Green Lanterns 45
    #598 in Kindle Store > Kindle Short Reads > 45 minutes (22-32 pages) > Comics & Graphic Novels
    #2192 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Comics & Graphic Novels > Graphic Novels > Superheroes
    #2949 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Comics & Graphic Novels > Superheroes

    If we go by Kindle Dark Matter books are earning their keep unlike others.

  9. #879
    Incredible Member RepHope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    There are so many things wrong with this sentence, dude. First, you listed off nothing but BatFamily characters. None of them have ever had to completely stand on their own. Second, one of them has never made it on her own. (Huntress, her one and only ongoing lasting less than two years back when that wasn't almost expected) Third, all the others, save Nightwing, struggle to sell on their own today. Fourth, all of these characters, save Damian, were created before the turn of the century in a very different market. And fifth, none of those characters were the first to hold their mantles and/or have books with them. Dick created Robin, wasn't the first Nightwing, but did have the first Nightwing ongoing. Jason was a legacy hero as Robin and the third or fourth character to call themselves 'Red Hood.' Damian's the 5th Robin, the blood Son of Batman and the previous Robin's ongoing lasted for almost two decades. Helena was the second Huntress. And Barbara? Not the first Batgirl, the last of the 3 'real' Batgirls to get an ongoing (her current one being by far the lowest selling Batgirl ongoing ever) and her non-legacy identity was stripped away from her.



    NAoH books are set in the main DCU.


    Not gonna bother with another full breakdown here. This just isn't true.



    March 2018 Diamond Sales

    Sideways #2: 23,807
    Damage #3: 22,394
    Silencer #3: 18,208

    I don't count Teriffics as those aren't new characters and the rest don't have sales data out yet.
    Sideways being that low depresses the hell out of me. I knew Silencer wasnít going to last past Issue 12, and Damage hasnít grabbed me, but I was really hoping Sideways would stick around for a while.

  10. #880
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Comicchron had one or two years agon a report where they showed the how much is sold va the different channels, according that report direct market and book stores is were most of the comics were sold, digital had still a relative small percentage..
    No, digital is still a small slice of the pie, as far as we can tell. But with so many digital avenues (comixology, Kindle, etc) it's hard to judge.

    It is however, (last I knew) the fastest growing format for comics, so even if it isn't a huge slice of the overall gain right now, its certainly the most promising.

    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    Naturally DM sales need to be taken with a grain of salt and these books should all get the chance to at least get one trade out, but as I've said before, I don't think they'll be able to have the same kind of success as others because they lack a unique target demographic. Kids aren't going to flock to these books like they do Squirrel Girl and Ms. Marvel and they're all too generic on a surface level (I can't speak to their actual quality) to get the attention of readers who don't care about cape stuff.
    That's crossed my mind too. I'm hoping that there's an audience out there; teens who have discovered superheroes thanks to the movies, who don't care about how long a character has been around, that these books might appeal to.

    But I don't know if such an audience exists.

    I don't really get why this mindset remains. The Bat books in Rebirth dropped the ball hard. BoP was the third book cancelled from low sales, Batwoman (even with her major push in Rebirth and later start) and Batman Beyond are going to be gone in the current wave of cancellations and once the current wave is over, the lowest selling DCU titles (unless they decide not to mercy-kill Cyborg after Wolfman's done) will be Batgirl and RHatO. Being a Bat doesn't guarantee success anymore, nor to my knowledge has it ever.
    As Skyvolt said, it's a matter of opportunity. But it's not just having a Bat on your chest, it's being a part of one of DC's "family dynasties." Batman is DC's favorite son, but someone tied to the Flash, the Lanterns, or who has a eagle or "S" shield on their chest will get a lot more opportunity than someone without a legacy connection.
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  11. #881
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    It is however, (last I knew) the fastest growing format for comics, so even if it isn't a huge slice of the overall gain right now, its certainly the most promising.
    Not according to the the comicchron article.
    http://www.comichron.com/yearlycomic...ustrywide.html

    Accoroding to that the fastest growing format is graphic novels and the book marked, while digital sales are stagnating on a low level.

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