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  1. #106
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowras View Post
    I'm willing to give some of these a first issue try. Immortalmen, Damage(sounds nothing like the original, more like DC's Hulk interesting), and New challengers(an update of this series was long overdue.).
    I'm actually surprised Damage wasn't morely aptly called 'Hourman', which makes me think he'll be in the JSA.
    Currently reading: Doctor Strange (1963), Forever People (1971), Mister Miracle (1971), New Gods (1971), Thor (1971), Defenders (1972), Camelot 3000, Dreadstar, Omega Men (1983)

  2. #107
    Astonishing Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Even with the top tier talent on these titles, after reading the premises and solicits, none of them interest me. I fear this will the the current age's version of Bloodlines.
    Currently Reading: Aquaman, Batgirl & The Birds of Prey, Green Arrow. Hal Jordan & The Green Lantern Corps, Justice League of America, The Terrifics, Titans, Wonder Woman, & Wonder Woman '77.

  3. #108
    Incredible Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    Even with the top tier talent on these titles, after reading the premises and solicits, none of them interest me. I fear this will the the current age's version of Bloodlines.
    Well. Bloodlines give us Hitman, one of my favorite characters and comic of all times. So bring on.

  4. #109
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Didn't read the whole thread, so apologies if Im just repeating stuff here....

    Okay, so let me see if I got all this right.....

    The big Batman-centric summer event is spinning a new line of books out of it. Smart choice for a line launch. No one sells like the Bat, so this Event provides the best possible venue for marketing and advertising as long as DC calls attention to the new line. And it seems like there's going to be some sort of shared event that kicks it off; perhaps similar to the Big Bang over at Milestone. Which means you have a built-in reason for the characters to cross each others' paths.

    The books all have A-list writers and artists. Whether its true or not DC is pushing the idea that the talent are the ones holding the reins. So it's DC trying (once again) to tap into the Image/indie demographic who shun "corporate comics." The talent involved means higher production expenses, but pulling from the top of the talent pool strikes me as a smart, calculated risk despite the drawback of lower profit. Without those big names these books are certainly doomed, rather than just being most-likely doomed.

    They're all 3 bucks, and all monthly, right? No double-shipping? Smart. I know DC increased the price of their monthly books but I dont see any of these titles selling at 4 bucks.

    All new characters, set in the DCU but in their own little corner. Well, we all have our pet favorites we'd like to see and there are established characters who need some attention, but the general comic-buying community isn't as fervent about them as we are. And honestly, characters like Ray Palmer and J'onn are almost more of a risk than new faces. New characters have a (low) chance of catching on and doing well, but characters like Ray Palmer or J'onn have failed to support titles many times so either option is high-risk.

    A lot of the characters are going to be PoC, female, LBGT, etc. While Im not strictly against new and/or diverse legacies taking over established mantles (except the Trinity, you dont replace them), you can't do that with your entire core roster (as Marvel recently realized). You need to bring in new faces too. So good for DC, after they cut a big chunk of the weird, fringe, and diverse titles out of their lineup with Rebirth, they're getting back to it now. They have successfully achieve some basic corporate social responsibility.

    All in all, I like the idea behind all of this and I think DC is making smart calls. But history is definitely against them. They've tried to get into the indie market time and again and it has never worked out for them. But Young Animal seems to be doing well, and what little we've heard about this Dark Matter line sounds quality. So.....who knows, maybe this time they'll strike gold. Yeah, I dont believe it either, but Im hoping something catches on here. Or maybe its time for DC to realize they'll never cut into the indie market because consumers are only interested in DC's big names and know they'll get better, more honest creator owned work from other publishers.
    Last edited by Ascended; 04-20-2017 at 06:46 PM.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

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  5. #110
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    Even with the top tier talent on these titles, after reading the premises and solicits, none of them interest me. I fear this will the the current age's version of Bloodlines.
    Indeed.

    And I doubt they'll sell very well in print too. But with digital being such a growing market, DC might be able to tap into an audience via alternative distribution that wasn't there in the 90's.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Discipline = Freedom.

    Invincible: The greatest superhero comic in the universe!

  6. #111
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Damage reminds me of that failed Doomsday title they just tried. None of these are really striking a chord with me just yet but we'll see what else develops...

  7. #112
    Astonishing Member Panfoot's Avatar
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    I really hope DC starts transitioning all it's titles back to monthly, there are just to many books I'm reading now and while I would like to try some of these I've trimmed my list down a lot already. I hope they don't fall into the Marvel problem of just putting out so many books that all but the biggest names don't last long. With that said, Silencer interest me the most, I like the creative team a lot and the setup, while a little cliche, is one I tend to enjoy.

  8. #113
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    All in all, I like the idea behind all of this and I think DC is making smart calls. But history is definitely against them. They've tried to get into the indie market time and again and it has never worked out for them. But Young Animal seems to be doing well, and what little we've heard about this Dark Matter line sounds quality. So.....who knows, maybe this time they'll strike gold. Yeah, I dont believe it either, but Im hoping something catches on here. Or maybe its time for DC to realize they'll never cut into the indie market because consumers are only interested in DC's big names and know they'll get better, more honest creator owned work from other publishers.
    I think one thing they should do, if they're not already, is don't expect Batman numbers from everything they put out.
    Right now, with as much material that's available in shops, the median level of Image numbers should be the benchmark to determine if a book is doing well or not.

    Btw...
    With all the talk about 'creators moving the needle', who wants to take a guess that Lee and Co. have worked up a deal with DC to give the creators more incentives for creating their own characters?
    The reason these are all new characters could be because DC is doing something different as far as creator royalties/payments.
    Especially thought-provoking when you consider that:
    A. The main creator who's spear-heading this is Jim Lee, who co-founded Image where he and other creatives formed a way to make low-print comics profitable to creators who make their own comics.
    B. With the market glut and price of comics, the average number of copies sold per title will only continue to drop to where it will become too costly to print anything but A-list books. While companies like Image can successfully get by with fewer copies sold and keep their creators happy at the same time.

    So, I'm thinking that Dark Matter may be a trial-run of DC taking an Image approach.
    Perhaps not... but... hmmmmm....
    Currently reading: Doctor Strange (1963), Forever People (1971), Mister Miracle (1971), New Gods (1971), Thor (1971), Defenders (1972), Camelot 3000, Dreadstar, Omega Men (1983)

  9. #114
    Incredible Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    I think one thing they should do, if they're not already, is don't expect Batman numbers from everything they put out.
    Right now, with as much material that's available in shops, the median level of Image numbers should be the benchmark to determine if a book is doing well or not.

    Btw...
    With all the talk about 'creators moving the needle', who wants to take a guess that Lee and Co. have worked up a deal with DC to give the creators more incentives for creating their own characters?
    The reason these are all new characters could be because DC is doing something different as far as creator royalties/payments.
    Especially thought-provoking when you consider that:
    A. The main creator who's spear-heading this is Jim Lee, who co-founded Image where he and other creatives formed a way to make low-print comics profitable to creators who make their own comics.
    B. With the market glut and price of comics, the average number of copies sold per title will only continue to drop to where it will become too costly to print anything but A-list books. While companies like Image can successfully get by with fewer copies sold and keep their creators happy at the same time.

    So, I'm thinking that Dark Matter may be a trial-run of DC taking an Image approach.
    Perhaps not... but... hmmmmm....
    Sharing the profits with the creator could be a major step for DC and the whole market. One of the reasons I think that the Big Two prefer not to do so, is mostly because of the heirs of the creators, but maybe if they do something that garants to DC ownership in the long run this could work.

  10. #115
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    Sharing the profits with the creator could be a major step for DC and the whole market. One of the reasons I think that the Big Two prefer not to do so, is mostly because of the heirs of the creators, but maybe if they do something that garants to DC ownership in the long run this could work.
    It could also be a similar deal they did with Bloodhound, Monolith, Xero, Major Bummer and Sovereign Seven several years back, but this time with the Image-insight from Lee to help guide things to make it more beneficial for all involved.
    Currently reading: Doctor Strange (1963), Forever People (1971), Mister Miracle (1971), New Gods (1971), Thor (1971), Defenders (1972), Camelot 3000, Dreadstar, Omega Men (1983)

  11. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Im gonna need more info on these characters and concepts before i just jump in. Ill probably give some of them a shot though. Like ive done with Young Animal.

    LoL, i have to admit though i didn't expect to see some of the bitterness in this thread. Like DC isn't also going to be publishing stuff they know fans want.
    The bitterness is in me but not to the point where I'm saying these books going to fail. I love seeing DC do new things.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    One problem would be that almost everyone wants to write Batman and/or Superman. And not necessarily the ones currently portrayed, but their own unique versions of Batman and Superman.
    And then a handful of obscure characters that are pet favorites from when they first read comics...

    So we'd have about 20 Batman titles, about 15 Superman titles, about 12 Justice Leagues and about 10 or so obscure C-D-listers, all with their own individual continuities.

    However, I do agree that editorial needs refocusing.
    Instead of acting like head-writer and delegating what should be in each story, they should define the limits and let the writers do whatever they want within those limits, stepping in only to correct continuity conflicts or to fix writing or art mistakes by proofreading.
    That's a bit of an exaggeration, you can have editors back away from writers without publishing 20 Batman and Superman books at once. I don't think anyone disagrees that editors have gone too far.

  13. #118
    pygophile and podophile Dr. Cheesesteak's Avatar
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    I like that there's top-tier art talent on the books. Tho it kinda concerns/irks me that DC doesn't put that talent on the main line titles (granted, some of those artists aren't consistent enough for main line titles anyway). But I get why they feel it necessary to push Dark Matter.
    Comics were definitely happier, breezier and more confident in their own strengths before Hollywood and the Internet turned the business of writing superhero stories into the production of low budget storyboards or, worse, into conformist, fruitless attempts to impress or entertain a small group of people who appear to hate comics and their creators. -- Grant Morrison, 2008

  14. #119
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlanta96 View Post
    That's a bit of an exaggeration, you can have editors back away from writers without publishing 20 Batman and Superman books at once. I don't think anyone disagrees that editors have gone too far.
    I agree.
    I'm currently reading the '70s Fourth World stuff by Kirby and they feel very much like creator-owned comics, with the same air of freedom and creative vision. The only times the books suffer, I think, are when there's grammatical errors, since there wasn't a second pair of eyes proofreading.
    Currently reading: Doctor Strange (1963), Forever People (1971), Mister Miracle (1971), New Gods (1971), Thor (1971), Defenders (1972), Camelot 3000, Dreadstar, Omega Men (1983)

  15. #120
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    There is another problem with this setup of using superstar creators on brand new characters, sustainability.

    Like, these books are being sold almost entirely on the fact that certain popular creators are throwing their work at them.
    That means these characters pretty much have to hit it out of the park during this star-spangled opening run, otherwise all the readers will just go away once the creators move on and get replaced. So the risk is DC ends up with more post-Johns Vibe, but if they are lucky they end up with a Miles Morals or Kamala Khan.

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