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  1. #1
    Ultimate Member Atlanta96's Avatar
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    Default Is Azrael a metahuman?

    I'm not super familiar with Azrael but I am aware that he has an enhanced physical condition and fighting skills as the result of some sort of psychological training. Do his artificially enhanced physical abilities make him a sort of metahuman?
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  2. #2
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Not anymore then Cass is, I would imagine.

  3. #3
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    I'm gonna assume you're talking about the original Azrael, Jean-Paul Valley, and not his...sub-par successor Michael Lane.

    Jean-Paul does not possess the meta gene. Rather, he was a test tube baby made with various genetic enhancements. Originally, his psychological conditioning made it so that Jean-Paul could only access his incredible strength while he was wearing the Azrael suit, making him vicious and unstable in the process.

    Personally, despite not having the gene, I DO consider him a meta. While a lot of his feats are just high level street level stuff, in the last arc of his book, an arc so frustratingly written it pains me to think about, the guy was picking up full sized trees over his head, and throwing them. At that point, in my book, you've got to be meta.
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  4. #4
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Not anymore then Cass is, I would imagine.
    The difference, besides the fact that while both of their strength and speed are off the charts, it's Cass speed and Jean-Paul's strength that are completely ludicrous, is their bodies. Cass was conditioned after being born, while Jean-Paul was a genetically engineered test tube baby. That's why I consider Cass non-meta, but Jean-Paul meta.
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  5. #5
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Was it ever fully explained how the so-called "System" of the Order of St. Dumas worked? It was the source of the Azraels' abilities, but I'm not sure it was ever broken down exactly how it functioned.

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  6. #6
    Ultimate Member Atlanta96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    I'm gonna assume you're talking about the original Azrael, Jean-Paul Valley, and not his...sub-par successor Michael Lane.

    Jean-Paul does not possess the meta gene. Rather, he was a test tube baby made with various genetic enhancements. Originally, his psychological conditioning made it so that Jean-Paul could only access his incredible strength while he was wearing the Azrael suit, making him vicious and unstable in the process.

    Personally, despite not having the gene, I DO consider him a meta. While a lot of his feats are just high level street level stuff, in the last arc of his book, an arc so frustratingly written it pains me to think about, the guy was picking up full sized trees over his head, and throwing them. At that point, in my book, you've got to be meta.
    Wikipedia says that anyone in the DCU with some kind of superhuman ability is a metahuman and lists Wonder Woman and Aquaman as examples of metahumans. So if you think his abilities are superhuman he definitely counts as one.
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  7. #7
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    Was it ever fully explained how the so-called "System" of the Order of St. Dumas worked? It was the source of the Azraels' abilities, but I'm not sure it was ever broken down exactly how it functioned.

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    No, we never really got the details. At least as far as I'm aware. The basics were just that the costume triggered something in his brain which caused the rest of the body's stats to be boosted.
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  8. #8
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    I would count him as meta human, since he iirc wasn't completly human and animal dna slised into his genes.

    The intersting question is of course if that is still the case with the new version, in his case the system is a computer that is build into his armor so his power are not completly identical with the original version.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    The intersting question is of course if that is still the case with the new version, in his case the system is a computer that is build into his armor so his power are not completly identical with the original version.
    For real? What an absolute waste. Good job taking the incredibly interesting and unique original System of Azrael and turning it into something we've seen eleventy-billion times previous.
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  10. #10
    Heir of Batman adrikito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    I'm gonna assume you're talking about the original Azrael, Jean-Paul Valley, and not his...sub-par successor Michael Lane.
    I thought that azrael was always the same character(jean paul) in post-crisis world but according DC wiki he is death since 2003, I ignored that, I see him in convergence..

    But in convergence appeared the original superman, dead for years..
    Last edited by adrikito; 04-21-2017 at 02:56 AM.

  11. #11
    Stuck in Limbo Red obin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    The difference, besides the fact that while both of their strength and speed are off the charts, it's Cass speed and Jean-Paul's strength that are completely ludicrous, is their bodies. Cass was conditioned after being born, while Jean-Paul was a genetically engineered test tube baby. That's why I consider Cass non-meta, but Jean-Paul meta.
    In my eyes
    'Some are born great (Meta), some achieve greatness (not meta), and some have greatness thrust upon them(meta, as they have a form of metagene).'
    EG. Martian Manhunter, Stephanie Brown (face it, you all thought I was gonna say Batman) and Flash
    You know in the DC universe, apparently 12% of people have a form of metagene.
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  12. #12
    Incredible Member SicariiDC's Avatar
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    Hmm, good question. Is Damian a metahuman then?
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  13. #13
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlanta96 View Post
    Wikipedia says that anyone in the DCU with some kind of superhuman ability is a metahuman and lists Wonder Woman and Aquaman as examples of metahumans. So if you think his abilities are superhuman he definitely counts as one.
    Wonder Woman isn't a meta. I have no idea what Aquaman is or isn't.
    That page also list Superman, who isn't any kind of human, and several people with purely technological improvements like Vera Black and Cyborg.

    Jean-Paul has actual powers, but that doesn't make him a meta.
    Last edited by Carabas; 04-21-2017 at 09:44 AM.
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  14. #14
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    I have no idea what Aquaman is or isn't.
    Half-Human, half-Atlantean. No Meta gene.
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  15. #15
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrikito View Post
    I thought that azrael was always the same character(jean paul) in post-crisis world but according DC wiki he is death since 2003, I ignored that, I see him in convergence..

    But in convergence appeared the original superman, dead for years..
    Jean-Paul did die in 2003, and stayed that way until BR:E (Shocker, DiDio had admitted to not liking him). But in Battle for the Cowl, we met Michael Lane, BY FAR the most powerful character to be directly associated with the BatFam, Lane was also boring as Hell, and he dressed like an Assassin's Creed reject.
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