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  1. #61
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Superman's power level is often just lip service to set up for one of those "Worf Effect" moments. The picture in that link, and the accompanying caption, pretty much say it all.

    EDIT: Furthermore, creating all these said moments just make you think after a while that this guy just sucks at what he does.
    Last edited by DochaDocha; 05-09-2017 at 02:14 PM.

  2. #62
    Incredible Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Superman's power level is often just lip service to set up for one of those "Worf Effect" moments. The picture in that link, and the accompanying caption, pretty much say it all.

    EDIT: Furthermore, creating all these said moments just make you think after a while that this guy just sucks at what he does.
    Pretty much this. To someone who only sees Superman in cameos or in the Justice League, most of their experience with the character is of he doing nothing or being under the Worf Effect.

  3. #63
    Fantastic Member kingaliencracker's Avatar
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    I think that while it might have occurred somewhat prior to its publication, THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS pretty much solidified Superman as a government tool who can be beaten by a mortal with a green rock. I think since then, too many writers play up to that and use Superman as a barometer for their preferred character to play off of and defeat.

    And before anyone jumps on me, I love DKR and fully understand its influence in the comic book medium. I can just acknowledge that while also acknowledging that it really didn't do any favors to Superman.

  4. #64
    Incredible Member TheNewFiftyForum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    I think that part of the misconception of Superman being boring and OP comes from the Justice League and team up comics in general. Take John's Justice League run for example, in the first arc as soon as the League unites to fight Darkseid, Superman is knock out, captured and have to be rescue by Batman, after that he biggest participation on the fight is push Darkseid back a couple of meters. In Forever Evil he goes crazy, involuntarily kills a guy and then is taken off the board for the entire event where in the end Luthor saves his life. In Darkseid War first he is send to Apokolips where he fall in one of the pits, what makes him mildly stronger and way crazier, comes back to Earth and have a crise of jealousy and get's his ass kicked by almost eveyone ( Wonder Woman included). The only good moment I can remember he had was in Amazo Virus.
    In Brian Hitch's run, the best moment we see of him is the first arc where he basically don't appear and in the issue where he has to go to the Earth's core, in the last arc he was captured again by the bad guy and have to be rescue again by guess who? Exactly, The Batman.
    Now just think about how he is used on others characters book, he is almost always there to be slaped around by them or their villains. I remember of he showing up two times in Snyder's Batman run, in a one shot where he enters in a room and get sick because hours earlier someone did magic in there, the other time is in Endgame, when he is mindcontrolled by the Joker and Batman defeats him with a spit on the face. In Tom King's we see him for one page getting his ass kicked by Gotham, in Aquaman he is slaped around by Arthur and Mera and is kind of a goverment lapdog, and in Deathstroke he is a goverment lapdog.

    Superman portrait in this tittles are overall focused on either how powerful he is, or how moral correct he is, but in the end the reason is the same, make them look good. I do believe that maybe DC should limit the cameos he made, because obviously the solo tittle of a character will make that character the hero and whatever guest starring character will be there to serve this puspose, nothing wrong with that, the problem is that Superman is too much used in this way. He would benefit from a more restrained use in others characters comics and, maybe they should pull him off the League for a while, if they have to nerf him, knock him out or just drop his IQ every issue, it would be easier to take him off the team for some time.
    I think a lot of that comes down to convenience for the writers, i.e them having a plot that doesn't really work if someone as powerful as Superman is around to solve it in 5 seconds, and therefore they make sure to sideline him early. The same thing happens with professor X in, off the top of my head, all the X-Men movies but one.
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  5. #65
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    It's probably best to let the people that dislike Superman for whatever reason dislike him. If you dislike him because he's OP and to tough on crime or whatever then that's okay but don't try and twist the character the conform to what these people want. They can find some character they'll enjoy.
    OOOHHHHHH!! - Joe Rogan

  6. #66
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    Superman tends to look like an idiot alongside the league. I would't mind if Superman was limited to ocasional appearances in the team.

    Superman is OP more because of the sheer power than because of what his powers do. I mean, super-strong, super-fast, flies, super-tough, can see and hear pretty much everything, flies, freeze breath. Its all very powerful, but its also very... mundane. Heat vision and flight are probably the more fantastical powers, and heat vision is a logical conclusion of the solar energy thing. Flight is such a iconic yet oddball power, never brought any explanation for it - and no, you can't gravitokinesis your way to flight, unless you can generate antigrav.

    Remember "Read my mind, Superman"?

    I think Superman is in the right place, power-wise. Maybe bring back his ability to mimick voices - remember that time Robin was freaked out by it in STAS?

    I'm actually glad that editoral order recently is to tone down super-hearing, because the idea that Supes can hear everything just sucks, implication-wise.

    Superman is not OP. Just on the League there's four people with similar power levels - Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Cyborg. I don't see anybody complaining Thor or Silver Surfer are OP.

    If you think Superman is nerfed bad, Green Lanterns have it worse. Green Lanterns nowdays are a shadow of what they used to be, they could time-travel, phase through walls, heal and even use the ring to augument/change themselves biologically (like Arisia aging her body up, or Guy Gardner using the ring to keep younger and fit). They did have a ridiculous weakness.

    Also, at least Superman looks cool on his title and gets some respect outside it, Green Lanterns get jobbed by everyone, all the time. Even in their own titles. The average corpsman nowdays is someone with a LSH flight ring that also shoots green lazors PEW PEW PEW, gets dumbfounded that his attack does not work (stuff that is immune to power rings is around all the time these days) and rather than doing something smart (say, using his power-ring to create a construct that throwns non-construct objects), just stares dumbfounded and gets slaughtered.

  7. #67
    Incredible Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slaughter View Post
    Superman tends to look like an idiot alongside the league. I would't mind if Superman was limited to ocasional appearances in the team.

    Superman is OP more because of the sheer power than because of what his powers do. I mean, super-strong, super-fast, flies, super-tough, can see and hear pretty much everything, flies, freeze breath. Its all very powerful, but its also very... mundane. Heat vision and flight are probably the more fantastical powers, and heat vision is a logical conclusion of the solar energy thing. Flight is such a iconic yet oddball power, never brought any explanation for it - and no, you can't gravitokinesis your way to flight, unless you can generate antigrav.

    Remember "Read my mind, Superman"?

    I think Superman is in the right place, power-wise. Maybe bring back his ability to mimick voices - remember that time Robin was freaked out by it in STAS?

    I'm actually glad that editoral order recently is to tone down super-hearing, because the idea that Supes can hear everything just sucks, implication-wise.

    Superman is not OP. Just on the League there's four people with similar power levels - Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Cyborg. I don't see anybody complaining Thor or Silver Surfer are OP.

    If you think Superman is nerfed bad, Green Lanterns have it worse. Green Lanterns nowdays are a shadow of what they used to be, they could time-travel, phase through walls, heal and even use the ring to augument/change themselves biologically (like Arisia aging her body up, or Guy Gardner using the ring to keep younger and fit). They did have a ridiculous weakness.

    Also, at least Superman looks cool on his title and gets some respect outside it, Green Lanterns get jobbed by everyone, all the time. Even in their own titles. The average corpsman nowdays is someone with a LSH flight ring that also shoots green lazors PEW PEW PEW, gets dumbfounded that his attack does not work (stuff that is immune to power rings is around all the time these days) and rather than doing something smart (say, using his power-ring to create a construct that throwns non-construct objects), just stares dumbfounded and gets slaughtered.
    Don't worry, sometime Superman will guest star on their boook so they can easily beat a villain that just kick his ass or kick his ass themselves when he gets mind controlled.

  8. #68
    Spectacular Member Last Son's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    I never understood this statement. Seriously where does it come from? Pretty much in every form of other media Superman gets his butt whooped and has showed that he has many different shades to his personality. So why do normies think he his op and boring?
    I think it's the lingering reputation Superman had after the pre-crisis era and most people who complain about Superman being overpowered were not alive or at least not reading comics when he was actually overpowered. Really, Superman is more or less on the same level as a lot of Marvel's powerhouses(Hulk, Thor, Sentry), and Marvel fans are always posting scans to prove that their favorite hero would own him so really, the whole "Superman is overpowered" claim has been unfounded for a long time, unless you genuinely have a problem with characters who are more powerful than Spider-Man.

  9. #69
    Fantastic Member The Learner's Avatar
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    It mainly comes from people who either haven't read much Superman comics or have no idea about other DC earthbound characters. Most people seem to have their minds fixed on the notion "he is Superman, he can beat everyone". I would have said the same when silver age Superman was flying around pulling planets and sneezing away solar systems. HE WAS OP then. But not now, he isn't even the most powerful of the Justice League. Next to Martian Manhunter, Superman's powers aren't anything special. He also happens to be the only high herald with many weaknesses as far as I know. I don't understand why he needs many weaknesses. Kryptonite is fine, magic is okay too. But red sun weakness is stupid. Why exposure to red sun light weakens him instantly is something beyond me. If anything, it should never recharge him. How does it work? Is it that the red sun radiation somehow replaces his stored yellow sun energy?

    DC made an attempt to give him a new power in the new52 and it failed miserably. It is like if Superman gets a new power, he must get a new weakness also. Superman being powerless for 24 hours makes super-flare unreliable. I can be okay even if writers don't give him a new power [something useful] ever, but they should get rid of red sun weakness and only medium-high level magic should hurt him.

  10. #70
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    Some of it is people not being very familiar with him. Some of it is also stories playing into that idea.

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