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Thread: Secret Empire

  1. #16
    Astonishing Member Ianbarreilles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    make your guesses now. I'm convinced that Kobik and Elisa Sinclair are the same entity. I have no proof. but it's what makes sense to me. she's pushing Steve to find that cube for a reason. maybe it's the part of her that's missing.
    I'm hoping that Elisa Sinclair will remain as a recurring villain even after secret empire ends it would be kinda be such a waste if she was only for the hydra cap story and secret empire but then gone after secret empire wraps up.

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianbarreilles View Post
    I'm hoping that Elisa Sinclair will remain as a recurring villain even after secret empire ends it would be kinda be such a waste if she was only for the hydra cap story and secret empire but then gone after secret empire wraps up.
    that's why I think she's Kobik. that means that she has been the villain the since Pleasant Hill. this isn't any different from the Sentry's story arc. Bendis reintroduced him and took him out of the picture; on his way out of the door. Kobik has been a thing since Spencer started writing Secret Avengers.
    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
    Because its fun, not as fun as the liberal meltdown but close
    11/10/2016

  3. #18

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    my prediction is that Viper retakes the mantle of Madame Hydra; when all is said and done. she's pretty good at slithering off during the final battle. I wonder why she didn't do anything w/ all of the superhuman dna Hydra stole from Osborn/H.A.M.M.E.R. she was just slumming it in Madripoor or something; when Elisa found her.
    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
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    11/10/2016

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    I still like my theory that Elisa is essentially ELIZA the artificial therapist. An artificial construct designed to provide Steve with guidance and steer him towards the goals Red Skull had. She is primarily a mentor figure and even when active seems to enact the will of Red Skull in the way she pulled together the advisory council for Steve. I am not sure Steve would necessarily have chosen those people. She has pulled Steve into an echo chamber of extreme views, and reflecting those ideas back at him, even using his mother to these ends. Steve even has the "always get back up" influence as so clearly expressed in the Remender flashbacks, subverted by seeing her fall and not get back up.

    To play devil's advocate to my own thoughts, it is tricky to seperate out the role of the character with her apparent artificially. By appearing to be a device used to steer the story she lends herself to being interpreted as unreal.

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    my prediction is that Viper retakes the mantle of Madame Hydra; when all is said and done. she's pretty good at slithering off during the final battle. I wonder why she didn't do anything w/ all of the superhuman dna Hydra stole from Osborn/H.A.M.M.E.R. she was just slumming it in Madripoor or something; when Elisa found her.
    Let us hope she doesn't end up sporting that frankly comical octopus headgear again! Did she actually appear at any point between the end of Secret Warriors and now? Perhaps this is part of the Secret Wars reboot. One of those characters that has turned back up since the universe was recreated.

    P.S. Looks like I will have to read Dark Avengers, somthing I have avoided successfully until now.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 05-10-2017 at 02:32 AM.

  6. #21
    Maintaining Status Q _Feely_'s Avatar
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    I have a question which has most likely been discussed at length but I'm too lazy to Google.....

    Has reality actually been altered or is it just Steve's recollection of events that have been tampered with?

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Feely_ View Post
    I have a question which has most likely been discussed at length but I'm too lazy to Google.....

    Has reality actually been altered or is it just Steve's recollection of events that have been tampered with?
    Because the memories have been presented in flashback until now this isn't an easy thing to discern. Certainly Elisa has turned up with a different perspective on history. My best guess is that an alternative and equally possible reality has been shaped, but that reality is not manifest except for in Elisa and Steve.

  8. #23
    Maintaining Status Q _Feely_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Because the memories have been presented in flashback until now this isn't an easy thing to discern. Certainly Elisa has turned up with a different perspective on history. My best guess is that an alternative and equally possible reality has been shaped, but that reality is not manifest except for in Elisa and Steve.
    Interesting.....

    Thanx for replying.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Feely_ View Post
    I have a question which has most likely been discussed at length but I'm too lazy to Google.....

    Has reality actually been altered or is it just Steve's recollection of events that have been tampered with?
    This is the question, isn't it? The fact that Steve wants the cube to reshape reality makes me think that it's mostly just his recollection of events. I've said this again, but it's really especially cruel since this appears to have started with the Red Skull. The guy is effectively taking a huge dump on the memory of all the brave men and women Steve served with during WW2 by making their collective sacrifices worthless, and he's using their best friend and greatest champion to do it.

    Sure, he may have gotten screwed by Steve, but still, it's especially cruel.

  10. #25
    Incredible Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Feely_ View Post
    I have a question which has most likely been discussed at length but I'm too lazy to Google.....

    Has reality actually been altered or is it just Steve's recollection of events that have been tampered with?
    As far as I've been able to gather, while some things have changed, like Elisa showing up, for the most part, it's just Steve's reality that has changed, while the actual past has remained unchanged. Because Red Skull, Zemo, and Bucky all still remember the original WWII and the good Steve, so I think it's safe to assume that only Steve believes everything that happened in the altered timeline.
    Current Reading List: Sonic The Hedgehog, Sonic Universe, Batman/TMNT Adventures, Spider-Gwen, Unbelievable Gwenpool, Hawkeye, Hulk, U.S.Avengers, Amazing Spider-Man, Secret Empire, Secret Warriors, I Am Groot
    Future: Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man, Edge Of Venomverse
    DC: Batman, The Flash, Green Lanterns, Batgirl, Superman, Suicide Squad

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Let us hope she doesn't end up sporting that frankly comical octopus headgear again! Did she actually appear at any point between the end of Secret Warriors and now? Perhaps this is part of the Secret Wars reboot. One of those characters that has turned back up since the universe was recreated.

    P.S. Looks like I will have to read Dark Avengers, somthing I have avoided successfully until now.
    it wasn't in the actual Dark Avengers book. it was one story arc in New Avengers that involved Norman being sprung from prison and attempting to restart H.A.M.M.E.R. Viper was part of his new Cabal; as well as Superia, Gorgon, and Monica Rappaccini.

    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
    Because its fun, not as fun as the liberal meltdown but close
    11/10/2016

  12. #27

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    whoops wrong cover

    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
    Because its fun, not as fun as the liberal meltdown but close
    11/10/2016

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    I still like my theory that Elisa is essentially ELIZA the artificial therapist. An artificial construct designed to provide Steve with guidance and steer him towards the goals Red Skull had. She is primarily a mentor figure and even when active seems to enact the will of Red Skull in the way she pulled together the advisory council for Steve. I am not sure Steve would necessarily have chosen those people. She has pulled Steve into an echo chamber of extreme views, and reflecting those ideas back at him, even using his mother to these ends. Steve even has the "always get back up" influence as so clearly expressed in the Remender flashbacks, subverted by seeing her fall and not get back up.

    To play devil's advocate to my own thoughts, it is tricky to seperate out the role of the character with her apparent artificially. By appearing to be a device used to steer the story she lends herself to being interpreted as unreal.
    then what was w/ the 'Cthon and the elder gods smiles upon me' stuff and her steering towards Steve towards opposing the Skull?
    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
    Because its fun, not as fun as the liberal meltdown but close
    11/10/2016

  14. #29
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    More a question of the build up to Secret Empire rather then the event itself but is Daniel Whitehall/Kraken still being alive and well a result of Kobik mucking with Steve's past? Didn't Jake Fury take him off life support and kill him?

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by classicgmer View Post
    More a question of the build up to Secret Empire rather then the event itself but is Daniel Whitehall/Kraken still being alive and well a result of Kobik mucking with Steve's past? Didn't Jake Fury take him off life support and kill him?
    I don't think it's Whitehall. I'm leaning more towards it being Ian Zola. if it is Whitehall, he has a lot of explaining to do. but Madame Hydra didn't react to him like I'd expect; if it were Whitehall.
    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
    Because its fun, not as fun as the liberal meltdown but close
    11/10/2016

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