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Thread: Secret Empire

  1. #31
    Mighty Member Cville's Avatar
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    Not sure if this question is for a Cap only thread.

    Catching up on Secret Empire.

    At the end of Steve Rogers Captain America #6. Was there supposed to be something behind Miles in the vision of the future? I thought maybe they meant to put a Hydra flag there instead of an American one, but I didn't see anything else.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    Not sure if this question is for a Cap only thread.

    Catching up on Secret Empire.

    At the end of Steve Rogers Captain America #6. Was there supposed to be something behind Miles in the vision of the future? I thought maybe they meant to put a Hydra flag there instead of an American one, but I didn't see anything else.
    I'm sure that they'll follow up on it. they wouldn't show us that vision for no reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
    Because its fun, not as fun as the liberal meltdown but close
    11/10/2016

  3. #33
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    Miles on finding out about HydraCap: "Explains a lot on my end". Yeah, that's definitely coming into play later. They haven't forgotten Ulysses' vision.

  4. #34
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    Not sure if this question is for a Cap only thread.

    Catching up on Secret Empire.

    At the end of Steve Rogers Captain America #6. Was there supposed to be something behind Miles in the vision of the future? I thought maybe they meant to put a Hydra flag there instead of an American one, but I didn't see anything else.
    The way Cap talks about it, he was the only one that looked around and noticed the details of the scene. That would seem a little odd given the other characters in the scene, but I guess a vision of Spider-Man murdering an iconic symbol of the US in front of another, is quite distracting. I imagine if the flag had been Hydra we would have all fixated on that, so it was probably a good decision. Maybe on that fateful day, a signal is sent out by raising the Stars and Stripes in an echo of The Star Spangled Banner.

    The question that needs to be adressed is that Steve seemed to see that vision as a potential moment of triumph. His death may not signal victory, but instead martyrdom.

  5. #35
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Miles on finding out about HydraCap: "Explains a lot on my end". Yeah, that's definitely coming into play later. They haven't forgotten Ulysses' vision.
    You could indeed feel his relief. It was a fun moment.

  6. #36
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    then what was w/ the 'Cthon and the elder gods smiles upon me' stuff and her steering towards Steve towards opposing the Skull?
    Because things have developed outside of Skull's plans perhaps? That's the problem with autonomous agents created by cosmic cubes. Although I still half expect Red Skull to come back at some point, and the excising of Xavier's brain to have been illusion. Afterall major character death generally has to be reversed.

  7. #37
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    I don't think it's Whitehall. I'm leaning more towards it being Ian Zola. if it is Whitehall, he has a lot of explaining to do. but Madame Hydra didn't react to him like I'd expect; if it were Whitehall.
    We know it is Daniel's son don't we? I didn't think the scene when Elisa convinced him to wear the helmet read as ambiguous.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    We know it is Daniel's son don't we? I didn't think the scene when Elisa convinced him to wear the helmet read as ambiguous.
    do you have the issue in front of you (I do not)? what does the text say?
    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
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    11/10/2016

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Because things have developed outside of Skull's plans perhaps? That's the problem with autonomous agents created by cosmic cubes. Although I still half expect Red Skull to come back at some point, and the excising of Xavier's brain to have been illusion. Afterall major character death generally has to be reversed.
    the Skull doesn't have the patience for that kind of ruse. he seemed genuinely angry that the brain was taken from him; the loss of power. and what would be the end goal of the ruse?
    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
    Because its fun, not as fun as the liberal meltdown but close
    11/10/2016

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    We know it is Daniel's son don't we? I didn't think the scene when Elisa convinced him to wear the helmet read as ambiguous.


    I haven't seen/read the issue you're referncing but how would his son get the helmet along with the rest of the Kraken gear when last time we saw the gear it was in Jake Fury's posession.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    We know it is Daniel's son don't we? I didn't think the scene when Elisa convinced him to wear the helmet read as ambiguous.
    i found a scan. i'll put the dialogue below.

    Madame Hydra (to the new Kraken whose face is never shown): "The man this suit belonged to meant a great deal to me --but cut off one limb -- well the point is I believe there is value in legacy -- it was just a question of finding a suitable heir -- and you are family afterall"

    Kraken: "I see -- and does he know?"

    Madame Hydra: "No and he never will -- he believes you to be dead. and so that is the truth of it. whoever you were before perished long before this -- You are the Kraken now -- the ghost of worlds lost"


    you'll note that at no point does she refer to him as a blood relation of Daniel Whitehall. and she said that he is family. Eliza considers Steve to be her son. "worlds lost?" dimension z or the hail hydra world? "he believe you dead." why would Steve give a crap about Daniel Whitehall's never before seen son dying? does it sound ambigious to you, yet?
    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
    Because its fun, not as fun as the liberal meltdown but close
    11/10/2016

  12. #42
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    i found a scan. i'll put the dialogue below.

    Madame Hydra (to the new Kraken whose face is never shown): "The man this suit belonged to meant a great deal to me --but cut off one limb -- well the point is I believe there is value in legacy -- it was just a question of finding a suitable heir -- and you are family afterall"

    Kraken: "I see -- and does he know?"

    Madame Hydra: "No and he never will -- he believes you to be dead. and so that is the truth of it. whoever you were before perished long before this -- You are the Kraken now -- the ghost of worlds lost"


    you'll note that at no point does she refer to him as a blood relation of Daniel Whitehall. and she said that he is family. Eliza considers Steve to be her son. "worlds lost?" dimension z or the hail hydra world? "he believe you dead." why would Steve give a crap about Daniel Whitehall's never before seen son dying? does it sound ambigious to you, yet?
    Hmm, interesting. I didn't have the issue to hand to check but I did recently look back at that page and still didn't catch the ambiguity. I seem to remember Whitehall was estranged from his family, and wasn't the scene set in Scotland? It still makes sense he was a Whitehall. We will have to see if it even gets raised again. If it doesn't he is probably supposed to be a relation. But you are right there is a clear indication that the character is somebody that we may know, and perhaps that Steve would know.

    I remember being mystified when I first read it because I hadn't read Secret Warriors. Now having read that, earlier this week, the scene makes more sense but it still contains a mystery.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 05-11-2017 at 04:38 PM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by classicgmer View Post
    I haven't seen/read the issue you're referncing but how would his son get the helmet along with the rest of the Kraken gear when last time we saw the gear it was in Jake Fury's posession.
    Elisa hands it to him and the helmet itself is already established as being able to take on the form and function of the suit. That was how it worked when Jake put it on.

  14. #44
    Amazing Member AJW009's Avatar
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    I'm very financially incapable right now, so I'm not able to get the Secret Empire tie-ins I want to. Can somebody fill me in on what's going on with Vision, Scarlett Witch and Odinson? I've heard Odinson saw Steve pick up his hammer-it's late where I am, I'm not trying to spell it!!-even though Jane holds it right now, and something happened with Vision and Scarlett Witch, but I have no idea what.

    Also, we now have Hive from Agents of Shield as part of the Hydra High Council now, has he been part of the comics previously? In a big way or small? And what about Elisa Sinclair as Madame Hydra? I know the title Madame Hydra is not new, but is Elisa? As a character or as Madame Hydra?

    Sorry, that's a lot of questions!!

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJW009 View Post
    I'm very financially incapable right now, so I'm not able to get the Secret Empire tie-ins I want to. Can somebody fill me in on what's going on with Vision, Scarlett Witch and Odinson? I've heard Odinson saw Steve pick up his hammer-it's late where I am, I'm not trying to spell it!!-even though Jane holds it right now, and something happened with Vision and Scarlett Witch, but I have no idea what.

    Also, we now have Hive from Agents of Shield as part of the Hydra High Council now, has he been part of the comics previously? In a big way or small? And what about Elisa Sinclair as Madame Hydra? I know the title Madame Hydra is not new, but is Elisa? As a character or as Madame Hydra?

    Sorry, that's a lot of questions!!
    Hive was first created in the Secret Warriors comic by Jonathan Hickman, way back in 2009 or so, which would be roughly six years before Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. used the character. In the comics, Hive was created to be the embodiment of HYDRA's ideals and goals, as opposed to being an ancient Inhuman worshipped by HYDRA like in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Elisa Sinclair seems to be a new character, though, created in Captain America: Steve Rogers as the woman who led a young Steve Rogers into HYDRA in the new history created for him by Kobik. Can't really say much about Vision, Scarlet Witch, and Thor Odinson except that they're part of the HYDRAvengers, though there might be some form of coercion on their parts; for more details, you'd have to get the Free Comic Book Day issue.
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