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  1. #1
    Sector 2814 poroto678's Avatar
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    Default What if Superman created a Secret Empire?

    Hey guys.

    We know how many people are freaking out because Cap turned Hydra. Comics burning, twitter rampages and quite a lot of bitchin' on the internet.
    It seems fiction affects their lives way more than reality...
    Personally I don't see the big deal and I'm quite enjoying Secret Empire.

    anyway... Superman went all fascist in Injustice and people loved it (at least where I am from).

    How do you think people would react if Supes went all Secret Emperor within the MAIN DCU continuity?
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  2. #2
    Last Son of Shaolin GreatKungLao's Avatar
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    I would stop buying DC Comics. Simple as that. And I hate Injustass.
    Last edited by GreatKungLao; 05-11-2017 at 07:55 PM.

  3. #3
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    I think he'd... de-fang humanity by eliminating nukes and moderate us with robots.


  4. #4
    Astonishing Member FishyZombie's Avatar
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    I for one would welcome our new kryptonian overlords
    jk, it would be stupid, injustice was an elseworld for a reason

  5. #5
    Sector 2814 poroto678's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatKungLao View Post
    I would stop buying DC Comics. Simple as that. And I hate Injustass.
    Could you elaborate why?

    I mean this in the most respectful way and purely cuz i wanna understand why fans are so pissed. I asked this question here cuz I'm only a casual Marvel reader and I don't know much about its history.
    - We were the BEST, Richard. No matter what anyone thinks. - Damian Wayne.

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  6. #6
    Astonishing Member sakuyamons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatKungLao View Post
    I would stop buying DC Comics. Simple as that. And I hate Injustass.
    1+

    Secret Empire is a terrible storyline, even if you don't consider it problematic, it's extremely poor with all them ~shock factors~ and personally, I am tired of the trend of turning good characters into villains/anti villains for the sake of it.

    I'd comment more but I'm tired.

  7. #7
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    I dig SE, I think it might end up the coolest thing done with Cap since Bucky took the shield (which wasn't all that cool for Steve, really). Spencer imo might even surpass Brubaker already when it comes to Steve. But seeing Superman go through the motions of another character isn't my thing. Injustice itself I haven't read for lack of general appeal.

  8. #8
    Last Son of Shaolin GreatKungLao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poroto678 View Post
    Could you elaborate why?

    I mean this in the most respectful way and purely cuz i wanna understand why fans are so pissed. I asked this question here cuz I'm only a casual Marvel reader and I don't know much about its history.
    Let's just say that for me heroes will never make believable/cool/great villains simply because this isn't their nature that was established throughout almost a century of history. Anakin Skywalker into Darth Vader worked only once and it was in Star Wars. Same move, even in other media with other characters, doesn't make same effect on me.

    I can only accept hero turned into a villain only if there is a redemption arc coming on the way. If the story is meant to put the hero on his lowest only for him to rise even higher and better hero than ever before, then count me in. If hero turned into villain and killed as one, then screw this crap, honestly.

  9. #9
    BACK FROM THE BLEED Atomic Man's Avatar
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    The iconic Superman would never create any kind of regime resembling an "empire." For the best take on Superman wielding ultimate power and remaining true to himself, read the classic "Executive Action," Action Comics volume 1, #3. Superman becomes POTUS and is even given the offer to receive the most powerful weapon in the universe. What he does instead says everything about the character.

    Injustice is pure garbage in the same vein as the godawful Snyderverse movies: stories told by cynical fanboys who either can't or won't be faithful to the character of Superman. Because they see him as "lame," "overpowered," "boring," or "too good," they deconstruct him and rebuild him in the dark, violent, stupid, and ugly image of Miller's Batman and other overrated and shitty takes on that character. He can't possibly be a good, honorable, compassionate, and decent man who honors life to the point that he refuses to kill, because that's not "realistic" or "relatable." What a load of horseshit. It's an excuse used by small-minded and untalented hacks to justify rewriting a character to suit their limited abilities as creators, and yes, that includes Frank Miller.

    I also want to point out that the Real Steel Deal would, if faced with the horrors of what we see in Injustice, exile Joker to the Phantom Zone and then very likely leave Earth in sorrow. He did it in another Armageddon 2001 annual after Lois died in childbirth, he did it after Byrne's ill-conceived storyline involving the deaths of the PZ criminals, and he exiled himself to the FoS after the Joker killed Lois and everyone else at the DP in Kingdom Come. A true hero withstands even the greatest and most horrific challenges to his heroism, and doesn't just toss decades of moral upbringing and practice out the window because he's pissed or hurt.

  10. #10
    Last Son of Shaolin GreatKungLao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic Man View Post
    The iconic Superman would never create any kind of regime resembling an "empire." For the best take on Superman wielding ultimate power and remaining true to himself, read the classic "Executive Action," Action Comics volume 1, #3. Superman becomes POTUS and is even given the offer to receive the most powerful weapon in the universe. What he does instead says everything about the character.

    Injustice is pure garbage in the same vein as the godawful Snyderverse movies: stories told by cynical fanboys who either can't or won't be faithful to the character of Superman. Because they see him as "lame," "overpowered," "boring," or "too good," they deconstruct him and rebuild him in the dark, violent, stupid, and ugly image of Miller's Batman and other overrated and shitty takes on that character. He can't possibly be a good, honorable, compassionate, and decent man who honors life to the point that he refuses to kill, because that's not "realistic" or "relatable." What a load of horseshit. It's an excuse used by small-minded and untalented hacks to justify rewriting a character to suit their limited abilities as creators, and yes, that includes Frank Miller.

    I also want to point out that the Real Steel Deal would, if faced with the horrors of what we see in Injustice, exile Joker to the Phantom Zone and then very likely leave Earth in sorrow. He did it in another Armageddon 2001 annual after Lois died in childbirth, he did it after Byrne's ill-conceived storyline involving the deaths of the PZ criminals, and he exiled himself to the FoS after the Joker killed Lois and everyone else at the DP in Kingdom Come. A true hero withstands even the greatest and most horrific challenges to his heroism, and doesn't just toss decades of moral upbringing and practice out the window because he's pissed or hurt.
    Well, to be fair, all those other horrible moments were caused by third parties, while Injustice forces Superman to kill pregnant Lois with his own hands. I honestly can't be quite sure that canon Superman would deal with something like this otherwise. He literally snaps in realization that he killed Lois and their unborn son. That is beyond horrible compared to other cases of Lois's deaths. Though I agree that he would simply put The Joker to the Phantom Zone, Superman would be hardly broken after something like that.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by poroto678 View Post
    Could you elaborate why?

    I mean this in the most respectful way and purely cuz i wanna understand why fans are so pissed. I asked this question here cuz I'm only a casual Marvel reader and I don't know much about its history.
    In my case, I can accept Superman or Cap going "bad" but only as a final chapter. And then not one that I will probably enjoy reading. There are somethings you just don't come back from. Not to open arguments about Bill Cosby's actions, but does anyone really believe that he could ever be seen again the way he was back in the Cosby Show and Fat Albert days? If not then how can we expect that heroes like Superman or Captain America could really regain their public image after something like Secret Empire? Short of a reboot or retcon I'd never be able to read a story where these characters appeared without on some level wondering why anyone in story isn't viewing them in a negative light.

  12. #12
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    You'd get pretty much Injustice, though I guess if we're being accurate to the story, at least Superman could use brainwashing as an excuse rather then just turning into a genuine bad guy...

    Though, frankly, I could see Batman going all "Secret Empire" on the world before I see Superman doing it, and I love Batman.

  13. #13
    Last Son of Shaolin GreatKungLao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    In my case, I can accept Superman or Cap going "bad" but only as a final chapter. And then not one that I will probably enjoy reading. There are somethings you just don't come back from. Not to open arguments about Bill Cosby's actions, but does anyone really believe that he could ever be seen again the way he was back in the Cosby Show and Fat Albert days? If not then how can we expect that heroes like Superman or Captain America could really regain their public image after something like Secret Empire? Short of a reboot or retcon I'd never be able to read a story where these characters appeared without on some level wondering why anyone in story isn't viewing them in a negative light.
    Well, it would be much easier to do with Steve Rogers. At the beginning of every issue since Captain America: Steve Rogers #2 it is explained that his reality, his memories were twisted/altered by Cosmic Cube, so his current actions aren't his own, but of Hydra's version of Cap. Readers are constantly reminded that current Steve Rogers is a not a real version of the character.

  14. #14
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatKungLao View Post
    Well, it would be much easier to do with Steve Rogers. At the beginning of every issue since Captain America: Steve Rogers #2 it is explained that his reality, his memories were twisted/altered by Cosmic Cube, so his current actions aren't his own, but of Hydra's version of Cap. Readers are constantly reminded that current Steve Rogers is a not a real version of the character.
    Buuuuut then we recently got the reveal that, IN FACT, Cap was ORIGINALLY part of Hydra, and during WWII, SHIELD used the Cosmic Cube to turn Cap into the ultimate patriot, and the recent events have only changed Cap back to the way he used to be...

    It's bullshit, and I hate it.

    As for the thread topic, I wouldn't stop reading DC, (Supes is near the bottom of my top 100 heroes so I wouldn't be completely enraged)but it'd still be dumb as Hell. And I agree, Injustice's story is garbage.
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  15. #15
    Last Son of Shaolin GreatKungLao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    Buuuuut then we recently got the reveal that, IN FACT, Cap was ORIGINALLY part of Hydra, and during WWII, SHIELD used the Cosmic Cube to turn Cap into the ultimate patriot, and the recent events have only changed Cap back to the way he used to be...
    If I understood it correctly, it was showed as part of Steve's altered memories. It was "his reality's" flashback, not Marvel Universe's. I might be mistaken, but I refuse to believe that Marvel can be THAT stupid.

    I'm much more angry with what Marvel did to Grant Ward on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Selling me this character as a hero who jumps out of plane with low chances of survival to save a comrade only for him later turn up be Hydra? BS! Not only that, they established that he only followed Garrett because he was his father figure, he didn't cared about Hydra and its goals, he only followed Garrett. At the beginning of Season 2 they made me think that Grant Ward is about to get redemption arc, but they murdered the character entirely later on. Framework Ward feels like a too-late apology for what they did with the character, but it was at least something.

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