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  1. #1
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    Default Does being married 'completely change who Superman is irrecoverably'?

    On his tumblr Marvel/Deadpool editor Jordan D. White recently said this as part of a larger post (it was about Spider-Man but only this part is relevant)

    ...I actually think Clark and Lois being married is EVEN WORSE for Superman that Spidey’s marriage was for him. I think it completely changed who Superman is irrevocably, and that bums me out because I preferred the old version–the way he is in the Silver-Age or in All-Star Superman...
    What do people think about this because I think it's not only nonsense but really misses the deeper nuances and point of Superman as a character, at least as far as I understand him.

    The love triangle that existed between Clark/Lois/Superman (and sometimes Lana Lang) is not only a relic of an incredibly bygone age but more poignantly it was never the real point of Superman as a character. Superman's whole thing was that he was a allegorical to an immigrant who came to his adoptive homeland, became one of it's citizens and contributed productively. And for him that involved using his super powers to help people and the planet because it was the right thing to do.

    None of that changes if he's married to Lois or anybody else.
    Last edited by Spidercide; 05-12-2017 at 08:28 AM.

  2. #2
    Mighty Member manduck37's Avatar
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    I agree that it's nonsense. Considering how important family has aways been to Superman, it would only make sense that he wants to build a family of his own. Look at Superman's relationship with his adopted parents and his cousin Kara. Family is a theme that's pretty important to Superman.

    Jordan D. White seems like he doesn't know much about Superman or Spider-Man. Getting rid of Spidey's marriage is still a pretty sore spot in Marvel fandom. Where does this notion that superheroes can't grow and progress beyond single guy who fights villains come from? If anything, not allowing some characters to progress in their relationships and families has a negative impact on the industry as a whole. It makes superheroes seems childish (which isn't always a bad thing) or less compelling than other genres when you can't treat a hero like an actual person who grows and changes. Not every hero should get married or have a family, mind you. Though for some, it actually does fit. Also of note, in All-Star Superman, Superman's impending death makes him realize that he wasted too much time keeping his secret from Lois and he really did want to be with her. So he spends his remaining time with her trying to be romantic. All-Star also ends with Superman starting a family, with an heir on the way even though Superman isn't around himself anymore. So All-Star isn't really the best argument against Superman having a family, considering both Lois and his future child.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Well, obviously, a lot of things are going to be "irrevocably" different. The triangle-of-two was a signature Superman element for a lot of people, so if that's your bag, you can kiss it goodbye. On the other hand, Superman's been married to Lois for effectively 21 real-world years, and she's known his secret ID for 26, so that's a signature element for a lot of other fans, too. I don't think there's a right or a wrong answer here, it's mostly a matter of preference and degrees. In the real world, marriage changes people to certain extents, so you can expect that to happen to fictional characters, too.

  4. #4
    Incredible Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    The different is that Superman always was a man a adult, while Peter Parker to a lot of fans is a teenage first, the eternal single guy. One of the complains a lot of Sider Man fans have is that he isn't alllowed to evolve, I think it was Slott who said that emotially, Peter is still sixteen.

  5. #5
    Last Son of Shaolin GreatKungLao's Avatar
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    Marriage might change the way of life, but not who he is essence/person wise. He is still Superman, he is still a super hero.

  6. #6
    Mighty Member The Kid's Avatar
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    I disagree with this editor with regards to both Superman and Spider-Man
    DC, hurry up and make your own version of Marvel Unlimited!

  7. #7
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    Well this might be unpopular around here but i do think that superheroes in general should not be married unless you are aquaman or black panther there is an archetype for an ideal male fantasy and the characters who follow that archtype closely are more popular then characters who don't,love intrests should not be as big as the lois has become to superman's story there is a reason why batman is more popular then superman or why wolverine is more popular than cyclops that is another charcter who's story you can't tell without jean but you don't need to have Catwoman to tell a batman story or mariko for wolverine story but you can't make a superman movie without lois you can't have an entire arc without lois see men give up their fantasy to be married to a woman they think is worth it so when you marry superman you already give up an aspect of fantasy that men can't have and that to me feels like an unnecessary sacrifice it just diminish his appeal to some who want a character to capture there imagination not reflect reality
    Last edited by yash; 05-12-2017 at 09:46 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    I disagree with this editor with regards to both Superman and Spider-Man
    My thoughts pretty much.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by yash View Post
    Well this might be unpopular around here but i do think that superheroes in general should not be married unless you are aquaman or black panther there is an archetype for an ideal male fantasy and the characters who follow that archtype closely are more popular then characters who don't,love intrests should not be as big as the lois has become to superman's story there is a reason why batman is more popular then superman or why wolverine is more popular than cyclops that is another charcter who's story you can't tell without jean but you don't need to have Catwoman to tell a batman story or mariko for wolverine story but you can't make a superman movie without lois you can't have an entire arc without lois see men give up their fantasy to be married to a woman they think is worth it so when you marry superman you already give up an aspect of fantasy that men can't have and that to me feels like an unnecessary sacrifice it just diminish his appeal to some who want a character to capture there imagination not reflect reality
    Batman being more popular than Superman has nothing to do with the latter being married.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 05-12-2017 at 09:50 AM.

  10. #10
    Spectacular Member Lvenger's Avatar
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    I'm glad this editor isn't working for DC, he has some toxic ideas about how marriage has affected Superman. Which aren't true in the least. Superman doesn't stop being who he is because he's married. This coming from someone who works for the company that retcons or removes married couples from comics is hardly surprising. Also All Star Superman was interested in being seriously romantically involved with Lois.

  11. #11
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    I just see it as one long extended Imaginary Story that will eventually end.

    On the one hand, it's as likely as Archie will for sure marry Veronica and that will be the only kind of stories we see about Archie from now until the end of time. There can be a series that explores such a marriage, but that's not the only thing that can be done with Archie or Superman, so it's not a limit that can remain forever.

    On the other hand, if the character of Jon the Superbory really blew up and became more popular than Batman--and had real staying power--Clark and Lois could become like Fritzi Ritz in relation to Nancy and therefore would hardly matter at all, so their marriage would remain but it would become mere background to the story of the Super Son.

    Beach Baby, Beach Baby, there on the sand
    From July to the end of September
    Surfin' was fun, we'd be out in the sun every day.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Batman being more popular than Superman has nothing to do with the latter being married.
    it has a lot to do with a charcter's appeal batman/bruce wayne is every 16 year old boys fantasy you marry superman and you already have lots of people to whom he will never appeal to

  13. #13
    Mighty Member The Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yash View Post
    Well this might be unpopular around here but i do think that superheroes in general should not be married unless you are aquaman or black panther there is an archetype for an ideal male fantasy and the characters who follow that archtype closely are more popular then characters who don't,love intrests should not be as big as the lois has become to superman's story there is a reason why batman is more popular then superman or why wolverine is more popular than cyclops that is another charcter who's story you can't tell without jean but you don't need to have Catwoman to tell a batman story or mariko for wolverine story but you can't make a superman movie without lois you can't have an entire arc without lois see men give up their fantasy to be married to a woman they think is worth it so when you marry superman you already give up an aspect of fantasy that men can't have and that to me feels like an unnecessary sacrifice it just diminish his appeal to some who want a character to capture there imagination not reflect reality
    That's really not why Batman is so popular. Hell the super successful Dark Knight Trilogy had an original character who acted somewhat as a 'Lois Lane' template in the first two movie before Catwoman appearing in #3. Didn't hurt the movie at all.
    DC, hurry up and make your own version of Marvel Unlimited!

  14. #14
    Last Son of Shaolin GreatKungLao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    That's really not why Batman is so popular. Hell the super successful Dark Knight Trilogy had an original character who acted somewhat as a 'Lois Lane' template in the first two movie before Catwoman appearing in #3. Didn't hurt the movie at all.
    Not to mention that Trilogy literally ends on Bruce Wayne settling down, while Robin follows in his footsteps to become new Batman. Because it doesn't matter who wears the mask, it could even be a billionare vigilante married to an ex-thief

  15. #15
    Mighty Member Coal Tiger's Avatar
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    Superman loves Lois Lane. I believe that is core to his character and more essential to his humanity than his parents being alive or dead. The love triangle I don't believe is core. It's entertaining, but it keeps Lois very 1 dimensional. I suspect that this Marvel editor didn't read All Star Superman too closely, because in the first issue he tells Lois that he's Clark, and the nearly the whole thing is a love story for Lois and Superman. The last words Superman says before he flies into the sun are that he loves Lois until the end of time.

    Now, obviously love can exist without marriage, but on a 75 year timeline they had to either shit or get off the pot. It's character progression, and being single has never been important to Superman the way it was for a time with Spider-Man.

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