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  1. #211
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    True. But it something that some writer and shipper alike sometimes don't understand. Even if Lois does die, Superman won't go full Hitler. And in Injustice there were a lot of things that drove Superman to madness than just killing the Joker.
    Part of that may also be on the reader, too. Just because people say she's his link to humanity, it doesn't mean she's his only one or that losing her would cause him to go nuts. So when they say that, it doesn't mean (to them) what other people reading may think it means.. if that makes any sense.
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  2. #212
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    How does this statement make any sense? First of all, Didio is nowhere to be found on the creative credits for the game or the comic that mostly just serves as an adaptation. You could blame Ed Boon, Byrne, Johns, or many others (even Jimenez and Perez made contributions) for actually doing a homicidal Superman, but you said Didio. Now as DC staff I guess they have some ultimate association, but if you blame Didio and Lee for "bad" ideas, then you have to credit them for "good" ideas. Though a fetish:

    1. a form of sexual desire in which gratification is linked to an abnormal degree to a particular object, item of clothing, part of the body, etc.
    "Victorian men developed fetishes focusing on feet, shoes, and boots"
    synonyms: fixation, obsession, compulsion, mania
    2.
    an inanimate object worshiped for its supposed magical powers or because it is considered to be inhabited by a spirit.
    synonyms: juju, talisman, charm, amulet

    does not qualify by either stated definition as motivation through a reasonable extrapolation, whatever the result may be.
    Sorry, that's more about "contrived evil Superman" than specifically the "if Lois dies" part. I should have been more clear on that, that's my mistake.

    I'm using "fetish" in the semi-lighter/jokey connotative form, as a swap for "obsession with" etc. The reason being that a lot of the evil Supermen started showing up around the time of New52, and I got a vibe early on that New52 was kinda "his baby" or his and Lee's. The differences in body language between the New52 Q&As vs the initial Rebirth Q&A seem to support this, though I admit that's circumstantial.

    I do give credit where it's due, though, even if not in that post - I've said on quite a few occasions that it took a lot of guts to swallow their pride and do what they did with Rebirth so soon after New52. I never, ever thought that'd happen while Didio was in charge, and they certainly deserve credit for either orchestrating it or letting it happen (I personally feel it's the latter, Rebirth feels more like a Johns thing).
    Last edited by JAK; 05-17-2017 at 11:14 PM.
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  3. #213
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    When you put it that way, as I can understand, it's clear what you mean about the general era and direction. I'm not surprised that the whole "Evil or Angry Superman " thing comes up, because it's from that same supply and demand factory that hampers the marriage. I can't actually say that that isn't how they feel in the least. But at the level of fixation... I just can't ever forget the horror of scooping up the whole of One More Day all at once and rushing home to read it. It was a thick, powerful mandate to destroy what Spider-Man had. For all the previous efforts to do it, Quesada saw that thing through and it was mighty in that terrifying way.

    White... well, this is the most I've heard from him. Like Didio, I just don't think his contributions line up with any real passion by comparison , just preference. I won't think of him in the event Renew your Vows is cancelled, for example.

  4. #214
    Astonishing Member Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    Part of that may also be on the reader, too. Just because people say she's his link to humanity, it doesn't mean she's his only one or that losing her would cause him to go nuts. So when they say that, it doesn't mean (to them) what other people reading may think it means.. if that makes any sense.
    I seen it post here and other places as well that apparently Lois in his only anchor to humanity. I think is bs.

  5. #215
    Incredible Member victorsage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    I seen it post here and other places as well that apparently Lois in his only anchor to humanity. I think is bs.
    She's the main anchor. She came before all other shown connections to the character, hell she came before his parents did.

    She's not his ONLY link, but she is one of the major ones. Even during the Silver Age, which I don't like, the reason he never officially "married her" then was because he feared she would be killed. I think that's a rather stupid excuse seeing as he is Superman (as Kal-L would show later during the dawn of the Bronze Age), but it's still rooted in the idea of how important she is to him. He wants her, but denies it so she can live.

    I think it's a stupid excuse story wise, but it is based on a very understandable (and human) fear of loss. Her importance to his character can not be denied, nor can his importance to her. They are eternally connected, which is sweet in a meta way, considering Jerry Siegel invented Superman and his future wife Joanne Siegel was the model for Lois Lane.

    Speaking of Jerry, had he had his way Lois would have found out about Superman/Clark back in 1940, and Lois would have become his official "partner" working with both of Clark's "masks" almost from the start.

  6. #216
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    When you put it that way, as I can understand, it's clear what you mean about the general era and direction. I'm not surprised that the whole "Evil or Angry Superman " thing comes up, because it's from that same supply and demand factory that hampers the marriage. I can't actually say that that isn't how they feel in the least. But at the level of fixation... I just can't ever forget the horror of scooping up the whole of One More Day all at once and rushing home to read it. It was a thick, powerful mandate to destroy what Spider-Man had. For all the previous efforts to do it, Quesada saw that thing through and it was mighty in that terrifying way.

    White... well, this is the most I've heard from him. Like Didio, I just don't think his contributions line up with any real passion by comparison , just preference. I won't think of him in the event Renew your Vows is cancelled, for example.
    Oh, no problem - and I do appreciate your asking for clarification. Always happy to give it. And you're right about the "supply and demand factory".. as long as they keep their sticky fingers off and let Jurgens and Tomasi do their thing, we'll be ok, imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    I seen it post here and other places as well that apparently Lois in his only anchor to humanity. I think is bs.
    Oh, it's totally bs, I agree. But I'm just saying that some people say one thing but aren't quite clear so what they mean is confused. Other people have just read into Injustice too much and won't put the brain matter into understanding that one Superman's reactions don't equal what every other version would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by victorsage View Post
    She's the main anchor. She came before all other shown connections to the character, hell she came before his parents did.

    She's not his ONLY link, but she is one of the major ones. Even during the Silver Age, which I don't like, the reason he never officially "married her" then was because he feared she would be killed. I think that's a rather stupid excuse seeing as he is Superman (as Kal-L would show later during the dawn of the Bronze Age), but it's still rooted in the idea of how important she is to him. He wants her, but denies it so she can live.

    I think it's a stupid excuse story wise, but it is based on a very understandable (and human) fear of loss. Her importance to his character can not be denied, nor can his importance to her. They are eternally connected, which is sweet in a meta way, considering Jerry Siegel invented Superman and his future wife Joanne Siegel was the model for Lois Lane.

    Speaking of Jerry, had he had his way Lois would have found out about Superman/Clark back in 1940, and Lois would have become his official "partner" working with both of Clark's "masks" almost from the start.
    Very well said. Seconded.
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  7. #217
    Mighty Member Francisco's Avatar
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    Superman's only anchor are the Kents. They raised him and imbued him with morals and "humane" values. Lois Lane is just a love interest. When they met Superman was already a well formed individual with no need for anchors to humanity or to anything else. Lois Lane is just a supporting character.
    "Dice que soy un atrevido y solo le robe un beso."

  8. #218
    Incredible Member Black Angel's Avatar
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    It can be argued that way but i don't think so. Thats something supes always wanted, but honestly he really sucks as a mentor despite being portrayed as his family man. Still will not say he is wrong since i writer will have to change an aspect of a married supes to a non married one when writing.

  9. #219
    Incredible Member victorsage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Francisco View Post
    Superman's only anchor are the Kents. They raised him and imbued him with morals and "humane" values. Lois Lane is just a love interest. When they met Superman was already a well formed individual with no need for anchors to humanity or to anything else. Lois Lane is just a supporting character.
    The Kents weren't even around in the beginning. Clark Kent originally was an orphan, but Lois was there and was the person he was most connected to.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Francisco View Post
    Superman's only anchor are the Kents. They raised him and imbued him with morals and "humane" values.
    Which means ALL his friends (and he has a lot of them) are his anchor to humanity. 'Cause those Kents are pretty human folks and pretty good parents.

  11. #221
    Mighty Member Francisco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by victorsage View Post
    The Kents weren't even around in the beginning. Clark Kent originally was an orphan, but Lois was there and was the person he was most connected to.
    Then it adds more to my viewpoint that Superman simply doesn't need human anchors. If he managed to stay well adjust for about 2 decades and a half before meeting Lois Lane, without adoptive parents, living in an orphanage. How comes all of sudden he needs Lois in order to not become a tyrant or a wimp or a clueless dolt?
    "Dice que soy un atrevido y solo le robe un beso."

  12. #222
    Mighty Member Francisco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwangung View Post
    Which means ALL his friends (and he has a lot of them) are his anchor to humanity. 'Cause those Kents are pretty human folks and pretty good parents.
    Nope. They are his friends. What makes him human is already part of him. No anchors needed. The only way he would be disconnected from humanity is if every human were to die all of sudden. As long as there are humans alive he will just make new friends. Not out of necessity to stay well "behaved" but because he likes people.
    "Dice que soy un atrevido y solo le robe un beso."

  13. #223
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    Superman or Spider-Man don't need to be married, it kills the escapism aspects and traits of there characters. Plus the stakes are lessened and the isolation of there burdens are shared by people which kills a lot of complex introspection of the driving narrative the hero needs to grow from. Clark should be the ever lasting boy scout trying to be the ultimate good in the world and figure out ways to save people as his tag line adventure and Peter is the broken but not shattered underdog who's normal life longs for peace but never comes because his calling is to be a hero that is committed to helping others but gets in his way of a life he wants.

    Hero I believe should all have some tragedy elements one of them of course is being beyond human pleasantries to illustrate the ideals they follow as guardians of humanity but they still suffer internally as a result of trying to keep the peace from non stop danger.

    Rant aside, they need to be like Cap and Batman. Not personality wise, but knowing committed to the job and not missing a beat if they can.
    Last edited by SpideyCeo; 05-20-2017 at 06:35 AM.

  14. #224

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpideyCeo View Post
    Superman or Spider-Man don't need to be married, it kills the escapism aspects and traits of there characters. Plus the stakes are lessened and the isolation of there burdens are shared by people which kills a lot of complex introspection of the driving narrative the hero needs to grow from. Clark should be the ever lasting boy scout trying to be the ultimate good in the world and figure out ways to save people as his tag line adventure and Peter is the broken but not shattered underdog who's normal life longs for peace but never comes because his calling is to be a hero that is committed to helping others but gets in his way of a life he wants.

    Hero I believe should all have some tragedy elements one of them of course is being beyond human pleasantries to illustrate the ideals they follow as guardians of humanity but they still suffer internally as a result of trying to keep the peace from non stop danger.

    Rant aside, they need to be like Cap and Batman. Not personality wise, but knowing committed to the job and not missing a beat if they can.
    Superman has tragedy in his story: the destruction of Krypton and the loss of his original parents when he was a baby. That's in his origin.

    The rest of what you say - basically that a hero needs to be acting heroically every moment, "never missing a beat," without any time for "human pleasantries" - is entirely your idiosyncratic opinion. To which you are, of course, completely entitled.

    But it doesn't work for me. To me, it engenders boring and one-note heroes with extremely narrow characters, and all of them essentially following the same template. I much prefer superheroes with friends, relationships, and interests, all of which are meaningful to them personality and part of what makes them who they are. Then I feel like I'm reading about characters, rather than monomaniacally obsessed automata who never have times of contentment and happiness to contrast with their losses and challenges.

    And when I look for "escapism" (an overused word in this context, I believe), I rarely look to characters who are constantly suffering and have no real human relationships. Who wants to "escape" into that?

    But that's just me.
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  15. #225

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    I think having a child would change Superman more than getting married but those are just progressions of his character arc. Him being raised by Jor-el and Lara on Krypton or having a supernatural source of his powers would change him more.

    Hell him getting the superman blue/red power sets from the start would change him more than him getting married.

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