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  1. #1
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    Default In Your Face Jam - Jul 9, 2014

    Brett hopes to see more empathy and understanding from both sides of social media arguments, but he really just wants the outrage cycle to stop.


    Full article here.

  2. #2
    Senior Member ViewtifulJC's Avatar
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    Some people just aren't happy unless they're OUTRAGED about something on the internet

  3. #3
    The One and Only Spidey616's Avatar
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    That Examiner writer Gloria Miller......wow....just wow.....

    Won't admit when she's wrong.

  4. #4

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    As a family member of someone who was raped it makes me shake my head that the word rape is being used to describe something it has no context to. Futher more this is being used to throw wood on the fire of the talk that Remender is a sexist man-pig because he killed Sharon Carter. Does this count as 'fridged'? Yes it does. But to point one important detail... Rick Remender has fridged male characters too. Angel, Jamie Braddock, Daken, Flash Thompson's father... The point is everybody gets a bad deal in a Remender comic. And to call the abuse Sarah Rogers had at the hands of her husband "glorified" is insulting...

  5. #5
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    I love Remender. He's one of my favourite writers (started with Fear Agent), but I will readily admit that he's not very good at writing female characters. While he's not shy about killing any character off, he seems to rely on using the deaths of female characters to drive the male protagonist's story forwards. These are all fair criticisms and this is a worthy topic.

    However, it's pretty embarrassing that Gloria Miller can't even admit that she was wrong about her initial post, instead shifting her complaint to the points I mentioned above in order to save face. However, even though she was out of line, seeing people defending Remender by threatening Gloria Miller is pretty disgusting.

    Again, I believe people should be talking about how one of the comic industry's biggest writers sucks at writing female characters, but if you're going to accuse somebody of writing a terribly offensive scene without understanding all the facts, you'd better be prepared to apologize when those facts are made clear to you.

    edit - good point by thethanosseed about Remender 'fridging' male characters, as well.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Xhatch's Avatar
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    Read all of this Cap run from the beginning and this "issue" is a complete non-issue. If people read the comic, they'd know the time frame has taken place over years in Dimension Z. Jet Black even says she's over 23 years old. It shouldn't even get news as it's a complete non issue.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by vmcb View Post
    I love Remender. He's one of my favourite writers (started with Fear Agent), but I will readily admit that he's not very good at writing female characters. While he's not shy about killing any character off, he seems to rely on using the deaths of female characters to drive the male protagonist's story forwards. These are all fair criticisms and this is a worthy topic.

    However, it's pretty embarrassing that Gloria Miller can't even admit that she was wrong about her initial post, instead shifting her complaint to the points I mentioned above in order to save face. However, even though she was out of line, seeing people defending Remender by threatening Gloria Miller is pretty disgusting.

    Again, I believe people should be talking about how one of the comic industry's biggest writers sucks at writing female characters, but if you're going to accuse somebody of writing a terribly offensive scene without understanding all the facts, you'd better be prepared to apologize when those facts are made clear to you.

    edit - good point by thethanosseed about Remender 'fridging' male characters, as well.
    I agree it's overraction

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by thethanosseed View Post
    As a family member of someone who was raped it makes me shake my head that the word rape is being used to describe something it has no context to. Futher more this is being used to throw wood on the fire of the talk that Remender is a sexist man-pig because he killed Sharon Carter. Does this count as 'fridged'? Yes it does. But to point one important detail... Rick Remender has fridged male characters too. Angel, Jamie Braddock, Daken, Flash Thompson's father... The point is everybody gets a bad deal in a Remender comic. And to call the abuse Sarah Rogers had at the hands of her husband "glorified" is insulting...
    I don't agree that Sharon Carter was fridged. Did her death have a large impact on Cap and was it likely done with that purpose in mind? Yeah, sure.

    But Sharon died a hero. She KNOWINGLY sacrificed herself in order to save the world.

    She CHOSE her fate and her death served a greater, heroic purpose. That's a far cry from being stuffed into a fridge for absolutely no purpose beyond trolling the male lead.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by King's_Gambit View Post
    I don't agree that Sharon Carter was fridged. Did her death have a large impact on Cap and was it likely done with that purpose in mind? Yeah, sure.

    But Sharon died a hero. She KNOWINGLY sacrificed herself in order to save the world.

    She CHOSE her fate and her death served a greater, heroic purpose. That's a far cry from being stuffed into a fridge for absolutely no purpose beyond trolling the male lead.
    Maybe so hell even scans daily agrees

  10. #10
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    Honestly, I want a civil discourse on both sides; I don't want one side rallying troops and pitchforks and demanding a person's job be taken away, but I also don't want the people in power with hundreds of thousands of followers waving off the complaints of people that have read a scene differently because they have different life experiences.
    But, on the other hand, I love that everyone gets a voice in these matters, and that super hero comics are being questioned so relentlessly because they're growing and reaching new audiences of people coming from different backgrounds.
    Thank you Brett.

  11. #11

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    No comment on this controversy since I'd never heard of it before reading this article.

    One thing in the article did catch my eye, however: Brett makes the point that no mainstream company would have any interest in having its characters commit statutory rape. That reminded of something: way back in the early 1980s, maybe even the late 1970s, when Marv Wolfman and George Perez were revolutionizing "The Teen Titans" they had exactly this scenario. The first Terra was a young girl - she may have been no more than 14 or 15 - who, it turned out, was a villain working with Deathstroke to attack the Titans from within. Eventually, she was killed. Anyway, it was absolutely clear that she was having sex with Deathstroke, a man who was in his 50s or 60s. This was presented in a very noncommittal way, but I remember being very surprised by it. Yes, Deathstroke was a villain but, even so, it was highly unusual even for a villain to commit statutory rape. Moreover, Terra was clearly not being abused or manipulated; she was a full and willing participant in what was going on.This was before the age of the internet so there was no outrage or even (as far as I recall) questions raised about what was depicted.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by thethanosseed View Post
    As a family member of someone who was raped it makes me shake my head that the word rape is being used to describe something it has no context to.
    My thoughts exactly. Going by the context of those pages alone, it's eminently clear that nothing that transpires in them can or should be compared to the incredibly traumatic and devastating experience that an actual rape constitutes. It's incredibly insulting to rape victims to reduce the experiences they unfortunately endure by comparing them to a scene in a comic book that's been twisted to fit one person's agenda...

  13. #13
    Senior Member GlennSimpson's Avatar
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    There is this thing that I try to use a lot in my life, that other people don't seem to get. It's called "the benefit of the doubt."

    When you see something that doesn't look right, assume at first that you might have misunderstood. Or that the other person might have had the best of intentions but came at it from a misunderstanding themselves. Or they simply made an innocent mistake.

    If people would come at these discussions leading with "I might be wrong, but it seems like..." or "You might not have intended this to come across this way, but on first reading it seems like..." and things like that, I think the world would be a better place.

    At least I think so...I could be wrong.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Exciter's Avatar
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    I can’t understand how white male authors that “take a defensive position” when a smear campaign designed to get their friend and colleague fired on the basis that he wrote a beloved character to be a statutory rapist when he categorically, indisputably did not do so could in any way be construed as a form of insensitivity to actual rape victims or women in general.

  15. #15
    Member Peter Porker's Avatar
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    I just want to point out that the person who started the hastag received death and rape threats and I don't understand how that isn't worse than Remenders situation:

    I have been called a moron, a slut, an ugly bitch, a dumb cunt, a racist, and every other colorful, cruel, and sexist insult in the playbook.

    I've been threatened with rape, been told to shut up, and been told explicitly that my opinion doesn't matter.

    I've been accused of trying to ruin someone's life.

    I've been infantilized, condescended to, pat on the head and told that my money doesn't matter, that I was hysterical and irrational, that I was making too much out of nothing, that I was a prude.

    I've had to answer the question "did you actually read the book?" more times than I can count, and every time the question's asked with that cruel, invisible "sweetheart" at the end.

    I've lost an incredible amount of respect for creators whose art and writing I enjoyed.

    Been sent unsolicited pictures of stranger's genitalia (i.e. dicks) by direct message on Twitter

    Received more than one offer to "cure" me - i.e. "fix" the fact that I'm queer

    Had my personal and identifying information - including name, age, location, and photograph - posted without my consent or knowledge as the butt of a post insinuating that I'm "hysterical" and that I have a "vendetta"
    from Jezebel

    Here's an article about why Remender got criticized in the first place, so that you people have a little bit of context: http://www.therainbowhub.com/why-ric...needs-to-stop/,

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