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  1. #61
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sighphi View Post
    You must hate A-force, then?
    Not that I hated A-Force or anything, but I do think you can credibly say that was forced too. Not that it necessarily bothered me that it forced. Just saying.

  2. #62
    MYTH SMITH ∞ !!! G. Boney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteQueenEmmaFrost View Post
    I'm not surprised.

    The whole concept of "all black comic characters know each other, right?" just seemed forced and racist.
    Not sure how that applies to this particular group of characters...they do all know each other. The one exception (as far as I know) being Manifold.
    All Lives Matter is right up there with Let Them Eat Cake. --Samax Amen

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  3. #63
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    It all seemed like Marvel's attempt to create books centered around a character rather than teams, kind of the same with the the whole "Running with the Devil" books that all have all been cancelled sans Daredevil.
    Surely not everybody was kung fu fighting

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Punjabi_Hitman View Post
    Marvel needs to look at themselves and see why other companies can afford to maintain books in the below 20K range but they can't. If more than 50% of your books are below or creeping just above that range, maybe it's time to look at ways to trim their bloated overhead, so you can pay creative teams more to keep them around, and can afford to keep books around at 20K sales.
    Marvel pays more than the smaller publishers do. There's no overhead that can really be cut on that. The big question is whether the sheer volume of comics ends up eating into their own sales.

    Quote Originally Posted by themasething View Post
    Books get cancelled for low sales all the time. The main reason everyone's suddenly so upset about it is because you all love your political high horses and shouting "yay diversity" at the top of your lungs. More voting with your wallets, spreading the word to your friends, and other small things would have kept the books going. But nope, you're just wanting to buy a few things (if any of you actually bought the books) and stand proud or make statements on forums. Marvel is a BUSINESS and as a business they have the right to cancel a product that is under-performing at anytime. Just be thankful that Marvel is even allowing the series to go to 6 issues instead of leaving you hanging at issue 2.

    Maybe next time, less complaining and more spending.
    The complaint here is that it was cancelled a day or two after the second issue released, which means the decision was almost certainly made before the second issue was released. Considering it's an all-black cast, co-written by two black people (including a black woman), it's hard for people who want more diverse content from Marvel to not be upset. For the record, I have been buying this series, and loving it, and I really, really hope Yona Harvey gets another Marvel gig.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cykewasright View Post
    Wow at least they let me know it was cancelled now before I bought more issues dang.
    Yeah, you wouldn't want to risk spending money on a book you enjoy. How embarrassing, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Probably doesn't want to waste money on a book that won't matter in six months. Seriously, they're not going to mention The Crew, or even Storm's "Blue" nickname, in X-Men Gold.
    And here we have one of the biggest obstacles facing C-list books. Audiences so concerned with something "matters" that they just don't give a damn about whether something is good. Whether the Crew gets referenced in other titles is irrelevant; what matters is that it's a well-made comic that's enjoyable to read. But nope, people focus instead on what's "important." As though any of this shit will matter 5 years from now. Like Secret Empire will actually change the Marvel Universe forever.

    Audiences who put "importance" over actual quality just piss me off. The people who decide not to by a book, not because it doesn't suit their tastes, but because it won't run for a hundred issues or whatever the hell it is they want.

    Does a book look like something you might enjoy? Then read it, and stop caring about how long it'll last. I'll forever be bitter that Kathryn Immonen's run on Journey Into Mystery wasn't longer, but hey! Guess what! Still a good frigging comic while it lasted!

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member rui no onna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    Marvel pays more than the smaller publishers do. There's no overhead that can really be cut on that. The big question is whether the sheer volume of comics ends up eating into their own sales.
    While DC and Marvel both pay more than smaller publishers do, there's definitely overhead and target profits involved in the equation.

    The following post was made in 2015 back when WicDiv cover price was $3.50.

    http://kierongillen.tumblr.com/post/...-the-divine-in
    Anything selling stably over 10k in single issues is a cause for celebration and joy. The creators are almost certainly extremely happy.

    If you’re selling over (ooh) 12k, you’re probably making more than either of the big two would pay you, unless you’re one of the very biggest names.

    If you’re selling anything near 20k, you probably have to buy drinks for your friends.


    All the three sentences I bolded in a block were about making money from the single issues. They do not include any other revenue source, such as trades. If the single issues break even and you make your money in trades, that’s also fine. With a few exceptions, big two comics primarily make their money in single issues. That is one reason why their single issue sales matter so much more.
    Personally, I think BP and the Crew should have been considered as one of those exceptions as the target demographic will more likely be found in book stores rather than comic book shops.
    Last edited by rui no onna; 05-15-2017 at 02:28 PM.
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  6. #66
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    Audiences who put "importance" over actual quality just piss me off. The people who decide not to by a book, not because it doesn't suit their tastes, but because it won't run for a hundred issues or whatever the hell it is they want.
    Funny this only applies to minority lead books on the mainstream level of the big two.

    I didn't hear this when I Vampire ended after 20 issues. Nor Vision. Nor 90% of the books done by Image, Valiant, IDW & Dark Horse who get awards/nominations.


    Maybe next time, less complaining and more spending.
    How about you take you OWN advice?

    All we have seen around here is bitch fest not by folks who are reading the book or even trying the books or who looked at the previews and just was not interested. It was folks who did NOT want the books around in the first damn place.

    Folks who all they saw was a minority, LGBT or female on the cover and that was more than enough to go off.

    And the folks who CHOSE to not buy this book can tell you WHY. Unlike the trolls who can't.

    They wanted a BP book about HIM not Misty, Storm, Midnight Angels or Black Lives Matters. A book about HIM. Neither of the spin offs did that.

    They saw a main BP book that pandered to black feminism and black male dysfunction and were not about to support two more books of the same crap.


    Marvel is a BUSINESS and as a business they have the right to cancel a product that is under-performing at anytime.

    One thing you fail to understand is what folks want is a CHOICE in books. Not just a long line of straight white male books. White males don't sell either.

    We like YOU are not going to buy a book because of the sex or race of the lead alone. We are like YOU entitled to the power of choice. Everyone seems to forget about that.

    The same crybabies wanting a Fantastic Four book are NOT saying they want a FF book-they are saying they want a FF book based on what THEY want. If the book panders to them they will buy it, if not they won't or join on after the first trade.

    Yet let that book fail-everyone from Obama to SJW will be blamed and not knowing what quality is.


    Funny the Marvel is a business comments only show up when it's a DIVERSE book getting axed.

    Where is this comment for books like Solo? Black Knight? Starlord? Foolkiller? Rich Rider? Moon Knight?

    Instead of folks don't know QUALITY when those books get axed.

  7. #67
    MYTH SMITH ∞ !!! G. Boney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    And here we have one of the biggest obstacles facing C-list books. Audiences so concerned with something "matters" that they just don't give a damn about whether something is good. Whether the Crew gets referenced in other titles is irrelevant; what matters is that it's a well-made comic that's enjoyable to read. But nope, people focus instead on what's "important." As though any of this shit will matter 5 years from now. Like Secret Empire will actually change the Marvel Universe forever.

    Audiences who put "importance" over actual quality just piss me off. The people who decide not to by a book, not because it doesn't suit their tastes, but because it won't run for a hundred issues or whatever the hell it is they want.

    Does a book look like something you might enjoy? Then read it, and stop caring about how long it'll last. I'll forever be bitter that Kathryn Immonen's run on Journey Into Mystery wasn't longer, but hey! Guess what! Still a good frigging comic while it lasted!
    Yeah I don't get the "importance" thing either. End of the day none of these books are important...they are entertainment. Or should be.
    All Lives Matter is right up there with Let Them Eat Cake. --Samax Amen

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  8. #68
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    Books get cancelled for low sales all the time. The main reason everyone's suddenly so upset about it is because you all love your political high horses and shouting "yay diversity" at the top of your lungs. More voting with your wallets, spreading the word to your friends, and other small things would have kept the books going. But nope, you're just wanting to buy a few things (if any of you actually bought the books) and stand proud or make statements on forums. Marvel is a BUSINESS and as a business they have the right to cancel a product that is under-performing at anytime. Just be thankful that Marvel is even allowing the series to go to 6 issues instead of leaving you hanging at issue 2.

    Maybe next time, less complaining and more spending
    Cognitive Disonance is a helluva drug.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    Marvel pays more than the smaller publishers do. There's no overhead that can really be cut on that. The big question is whether the sheer volume of comics ends up eating into their own sales.
    Yet right now DC has a deeper talent pool than Marvel and Marvel is bleeding talent faster than any other publisher. Why is that?
    Last edited by Punjabi_Hitman; 05-15-2017 at 06:18 PM.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Punjabi_Hitman View Post
    Yet right now DC has a deeper talent pool than Marvel and Marvel is bleeding talent faster than any other publisher. Why is that?
    Assuming that's even true, and I'm not convinced it is, I doubt it's because of money issues. A more likely cause would be simple creative differences. Maybe some creators feel underappreciated by Marvel, or they were getting too much interference from editorial, or they're fed up with Marvel's market over-saturation making it that much more difficult to sustain a title that isn't Spider-Man or Deadpool. Or any number of other complaints.

    Regardless, my point remains: Dark Horse can afford lower sales than Marvel, because Dark Horse gives lower page rates than Marvel. What works for the other publishers won't necessarily work for Marvel. Of course Marvel pays attention to what other publishers do, but trying to argue that Marvel can afford a title with sales under 10 000 because Jem & the Holograms has sales under 10 000 is silly. It's trying to make a 1:1 comparison that fails to consider other factors.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    This is just a prime example of a book getting drowned by Marvels insane monthly output. I bet if you asked 100 people that buy comics you would be lucky to find even 5 that even knew this series existed let alone bought it. If Marvel wants to give books like this a real chance they have to cut back on the number of series they publish every month.
    THIS is the main issue here, I feel.

  11. #71
    CBB 4 LIFE Mr MajestiK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Funny this only applies to minority lead books on the mainstream level of the big two.

    I didn't hear this when I Vampire ended after 20 issues. Nor Vision. Nor 90% of the books done by Image, Valiant, IDW & Dark Horse who get awards/nominations.




    How about you take you OWN advice?

    All we have seen around here is bitch fest not by folks who are reading the book or even trying the books or who looked at the previews and just was not interested. It was folks who did NOT want the books around in the first damn place.

    Folks who all they saw was a minority, LGBT or female on the cover and that was more than enough to go off.

    And the folks who CHOSE to not buy this book can tell you WHY. Unlike the trolls who can't.

    They wanted a BP book about HIM not Misty, Storm, Midnight Angels or Black Lives Matters. A book about HIM. Neither of the spin offs did that.

    They saw a main BP book that pandered to black feminism and black male dysfunction and were not about to support two more books of the same crap.





    One thing you fail to understand is what folks want is a CHOICE in books. Not just a long line of straight white male books. White males don't sell either.

    We like YOU are not going to buy a book because of the sex or race of the lead alone. We are like YOU entitled to the power of choice. Everyone seems to forget about that.

    The same crybabies wanting a Fantastic Four book are NOT saying they want a FF book-they are saying they want a FF book based on what THEY want. If the book panders to them they will buy it, if not they won't or join on after the first trade.

    Yet let that book fail-everyone from Obama to SJW will be blamed and not knowing what quality is.


    Funny the Marvel is a business comments only show up when it's a DIVERSE book getting axed.

    Where is this comment for books like Solo? Black Knight? Starlord? Foolkiller? Rich Rider? Moon Knight?

    Instead of folks don't know QUALITY when those books get axed.
    One of the realest posts in this thread so far.
    Enjoying the camraderie of friends and family is all that matters in the world.

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  12. #72
    Astonishing Member rui no onna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    This is just a prime example of a book getting drowned by Marvels insane monthly output. I bet if you asked 100 people that buy comics you would be lucky to find even 5 that even knew this series existed let alone bought it. If Marvel wants to give books like this a real chance they have to cut back on the number of series they publish every month.
    I actually know exactly when it was solicited (FEB17 Previews).

    Problem?

    These are some of the other books solicited at the same time:
    • Secret Empire #0 (of 9)
    • X-Men Blue #1
    • X-Men Blue #2
    • X-Men Gold #1
    • X-Men Gold #2
    • Weapon X #1
    • Weapon X #2
    • Ben Reilly Scarlet Spider #1
    • Royals #1
    • Royals #2
    • Nick Fury #1
    • Monsters Unleashed #1


    Hard enough to figure which X-book to buy given the first month double shipping with $4.99 #1 but add in several other #1s as well? I reckon that's practically a death knell for new books that are not Secret Empire nor X-Men. That's not even factoring in how variants would change the equation.
    Last edited by rui no onna; 05-15-2017 at 08:39 PM.
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  13. #73
    Astonishing Member TooFlyToFail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_haos View Post
    How do you get the profile higher named writer Priest don't work, guys from tv film Hudlin don't work, world renowned authors Coates don't work. Doomwar didn't work, MWF didn't work and Klaws didn't work. He's on multiple teams and appearing in multiple books Ultimates and New Invaders upcoming probably going to be on the Avengers reboot how do you get his profile higher turn him into a villian for a bit?
    How about you get a really big name writer? Hickman never wrote a BP solo. If Snyder can get pulled away from DC, he'd bring a lot of eyes to BP. Hell, Bendis (lord please don't let this happen) would definitely up its sales.

  14. #74
    Astonishing Member TooFlyToFail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    By actually supporting him and putting him on the Flagship avenger's team book with the OG avengers, Grabbing more people like Priest and Hudlin (Which they actually made quite a bit difference to the character, so i dont know why your downplaying them. Priest forced people to take him seriously and upgraded him to the 20th century, and Hudlin made the MU take him seriously as someone who can stand with the big dogs. hell Priests version is what the MCU is going off of in terms of the characteristics) to write the solo. Actually focus on keeping him front and cwnter and give him REAL clear cut victories over KNOWN A list villains. see the problem is that Coate squashed the momentum by writing a boring bias story that did no favors for T'Challa or Wakanda, Gay further destroyed that with BP WOW. so the Crew had no chance after the fiery piece of shit that was WOW. had the Crew came out first then its likely the book would of made it past 6 issues but thew goodwill form Fans has run out, especially since t'challa Didn't even feature until the last page. that is not how you raise his profile
    I think we've all realized that T'Challa being an Avenger makes no sense. The Ultimates is a much better fit for him.

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by TooFlyToFail View Post
    How about you get a really big name writer? Hickman never wrote a BP solo. If Snyder can get pulled away from DC, he'd bring a lot of eyes to BP. Hell, Bendis (lord please don't let this happen) would definitely up its sales.
    Maybe. Maybe not. Bendis' name wasn't enough to sell Moon Knight or Spider-Woman. Coates isn't exactly some no-name guy - he's a best-selling author. Frankly, there are probably more people who know Coates' name than Bendis'. Or Hickman or Snyder.

    I also hate hate hate hate hate hate that the solution for better sales is always - ALWAYS AND FOREVER AND IN EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE ANYONE WILL EVER COME UP WITH UNTIL THE GODDAMN END OF TIME - "get a white dude on it." Every time. In every single conversation about how to get a book better sales, or even just how to improve its quality, the answer so many people come up with is always "get a white dude on it." How do you raise Black Panther's profile? White dude! How do you boost Captain Marvel's sales? White dude! How do you improve the quality of America? White dude! White dudes are the one-size-fits-all solution to the problems faced by books with female and minority leads. Female and minority writers don't get to write the A-list titles, because "they haven't proven themselves." And then people also want to take away the books that would give them a chance to prove themselves, because they think that slapping a white dude's name on the cover will get those titles better sales.

    You want a white guy to write Black Panther's solo?

    hellno (2).jpg

    I want Coates on Black Panther. I want Yona Harvey on a Storm solo. I want Kate Leth on a Spider-Man title. I want Nilah Magruder on Captain America. To hell with the same white dudes writing every goddamn book, as though they're the only ones whose voices actually matter and deserve to be heard. Give us diverse creators, and give them books that have certain levels of built-in sales.

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