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  1. #46
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    At least other writers won't have to jump through too many hoops to retcon the maiming of Miss Lane out of continuity...they can just introduce a different Lois and have this one disintegrate again.

    The retcons never have to end.

    Anyway, I don't know- Ending Battle already was a great followup to Action #775. This is just rehashing.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 05-17-2017 at 07:57 PM.
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  2. #47
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    The effect on Lois was kind of the elephant in the room for me. The general idea, something similar to what happened to Alfred, checks out. But the implication of mutilating a woman for the effect it has on the males around her... pretty rough. It really begs for a deep exploration of her mental and physical recovery when this villain gets flattened.

  3. #48
    Kingdom Come Board Original Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    I can certainly sympathize with any female fans upset by Lois losing her leg, but her humanity is the most fundamental thing about her character and not being invulnerable should absolutely be a part of that. At the end of the day, the greatest strength of Lois Lane is that she is the most human woman on Earth, which is what makes this immensely powerful alien fall in love with her. If she can't ever be hurt for fear of angering fans, where does that leave the character in the context of action-adventure stories?

    It's incredibly unfair that female characters have been disproportionately the ones getting paralyzed, raped or killed off, but should that mean that no female character can be seriously injured in superhero stories from now on? Is that really what you want? Does potentially losing a leg make Lois a weaker character or could it potentially make her a much stronger one like what happened with Barbara Gordon?

    I don't know, that is my gut reaction to it. Obviously, others will feel differently. Incidentally, if this had happened to Batman or Jimmy Olsen, I would feel the exact same way, but I think the story possibilities for Lois are better because of her family. She's wife & mother to an invunerable husband & son. Her being seriously hurt is absolutely something worth exploring.

  4. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    Lots of comments here about how this impacts Jon and how hard of must be for him. Very few people seem to care that the female readers were forced to watch their heroine grotesquely lose her leg seemingly as a plot device to motivate and hurt the men.

    What was done here to Lois was gross, disgusting and gratuitous. I don't care if it is eventually undone because the damage is done. Female characters and their bodies do not just exist to be maimed and harmed for plot. Especially this woman who already is stuck being the subject of a violent video game that also released today that revolves around her murder.

    You all thought this was bold and brilliant? You are worried about Jon? Well, almost every woman I know was devastated seeing this imagery. Seeing their heroine so disrespected. Some of them cried. One woman i know, who is disabled herself, was furious and tearful at seeing Lois treated this way. This issue was not received well amongst the female fandom. It caused a lot of women pain--even women who had been enjoying the book and defending Tomasi up to this point. We are tired of seeing her hurt.

    Food for thought and perhaps something to reflect on guys as you talk about how this impacts the Clark and Jon. And do not try to tell me that this could be a "great story" for Lois coming back from tragedy because women don't need to be physically maimed to be finally given something to do and if their growth only stems from a bodily harm then we have a problem.

    The issue itself was solid. What they did to Lois was bottom of the barrel and I think it has cost them the faith and trust of a lot of women.
    Thank you! This sort of lowest common denominator story telling was what got me to drop DC before. This seriousl makes me rethink the high hopes I had for Rebirth.
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  5. #50
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    If Lois gets a prosthetic leg and still is as badass as ever, wouldn't that count as representation, especially after the loss of Oracle? I don't think the stunt provides potential only for Clark and Jon's development, it can actually do a lot more for Lois's development moving forward. How will she bounce back and navigate life as a disabled person balancing intrepid journalism and family life? In fact, I'd say this development could actually be used as a setup for a Lois solo ongoing title.

    Action Comics suggests it will be undone/revealed to be some sort of illusion though.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    Lots of comments here about how this impacts Jon and how hard of must be for him. Very few people seem to care that the female readers were forced to watch their heroine grotesquely lose her leg seemingly as a plot device to motivate and hurt the men.
    The book is written in a way where you are observing next to Jon. So you are subconsciously placing yourself in his shoes, you as the reader and him as the viewer of all this chaos. This isn't a motivation plot, rather a action that breeds consciousnesses. It's a character plot point, Jon can now decide to be more like Manchester Black, or he can be more like Superman. It's a character growth moment. The same situation can be done with Lois replaced as a man, it makes no difference, just because it happens to happen to Lois doesn't make this situation tragic, or that it happens to a woman. That part is irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly
    What was done here to Lois was gross, disgusting and gratuitous. I don't care if it is eventually undone because the damage is done. Female characters and their bodies do not just exist to be maimed and harmed for plot. Especially this woman who already is stuck being the subject of a violent video game that also released today that revolves around her murder.
    Well, if we applied this logic to all side characters then we would lose out on some great story telling. The death of the family arc wouldn't happen, or in game of thrones Ned stark getting beheaded influences Arya and the entire stark family. Tragedy drives/develops characters. Also, Injustice 2 is a great game! A story that is really about Supergirl really, seeing tragedy happen to her cousin and not following in his footsteps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly
    You all thought this was bold and brilliant? You are worried about Jon? Well, almost every woman I know was devastated seeing this imagery. Seeing their heroine so disrespected. Some of them cried. One woman i know, who is disabled herself, was furious and tearful at seeing Lois treated this way. This issue was not received well amongst the female fandom. It caused a lot of women pain--even women who had been enjoying the book and defending Tomasi up to this point. We are tired of seeing her hurt.
    It's devastating imagery regardless of who's gender it is. Again in game of thrones when whats his name got his arm chopped off, it was shocking and tragic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly
    Food for thought and perhaps something to reflect on guys as you talk about how this impacts the Clark and Jon. And do not try to tell me that this could be a "great story" for Lois coming back from tragedy because women don't need to be physically maimed to be finally given something to do and if their growth only stems from a bodily harm then we have a problem.

    The issue itself was solid. What they did to Lois was bottom of the barrel and I think it has cost them the faith and trust of a lot of women.
    When tragedy happens, we usually look to others to see their reactions in the story, rather then the character itself. It's more of a instinct of "what does everyone do in response", well Lois ain't doing anything, she just got her leg chopped off. So move on to Jon and Superman. That's the interesting reactions where, for example, if Jon and Lois switched spots, we wouldn't look at Jon and consider his perspective, rather we look at Lois and her reaction. It really has nothing to do with it being a gender issue, rather a natural chain of events.

    My bad if I offended, not my intention, sometimes I come off more confrontational then intended, English is not my native language.
    Last edited by Blueblox; 05-17-2017 at 11:27 PM.

  7. #52
    Last Son of Shaolin GreatKungLao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I'm not seeing a problem in this instance. When it comes to physical injury Lois is always going to be the most susceptible. She's the only pure human in the family. And right now they are literally surrounded by metas and monsters. Two, I don't see any problem with injuries to female characters if they have agency and reason. And this had both. Lois comes off looking really tough, showing that even a bad injury does nothing to sway her motherly instincts and has only Jon on her mind. And she will likely have to deal with the fallout of this just as much as Superman and Jon will. If this goes where I think it does and Black tries to use the injury to his mother to turn him against Superman's moral codes, then this is something that affects the whole family going forward. Its something they all have to deal with and grow from together. Now if Lois plays no part in this regard later, then I'll question that.

    Now, I'm not nave. Superman and Jon are the stars of this book, and Lois is the main supporting character as she's always been. So male or female the main supporting character often gets these roles, where it then drives the stars. So are Superman and Jon the main beneficiaries if we're taking count from a point of view of story? Sure. Its always going to be that way unless Lois ever gets her own title to star in. But, that's not automatically bad if it affects said supporting character too and they do more than just get hurt. And in this arc thus far, Lois has done more than just get hurt. And like I said, the consequences of all this going forward should affect her as much as the others. So thus far I think this arc has served her better than past arcs (with the exception of the Eradicator arc where she also got to look good and play a strong role).
    On top of all things Lois Lane is a reporter and in real life when reporters go to hot zone action, some of them end up injured or much worse. If anything, Superman #23 showed how dangerous her work actually is, she went on to investigation after all in #22 and #23 is her going into hot zone. To me that moment actually showed how strong she is, she handled her severed leg like a boss and still kept her priorities straight, which is important for her reporter side, pursuing the truth no matter the circumstances and obstacles. But here this is also shows how badass of a mother and wife she is, because she doesn't let this injury stop her from staying on point. When I was reading those pages, first thing I started thinking about is how this will affect her first of all. I hope she will also be the one to develop after this arc, re-consider how she has to approach this life as a mother of Superboy and wife of Superman, maybe coming up with something like getting her own battle armor or some high tech non-lethal weaponry. Maybe she will be determined to finally have Superman and Superboy depend on her from time to time, instead of being dependent on them during Superman's scale of danger, which as shown in this issue might lead to Lois getting hurt and this is ok, because lots of people get hurt when a threat of this kind of scale happens. Who knows, but honestly, the last thing I was thinking about is how this issue diminishes Lois as a character, because to me Superman #23 did nothing like that. On the contrary, it might lead to her further development. If this is not what's going to happen, then I will join the riot.

  8. #53
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    Too bad about Lois. Well, I'm sure they will be able to fit her with a nice harpoon prosthesis.

  9. #54
    Fantastic Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baseman View Post
    Cost of being a side character in a superhero story.
    Cost of being the wife of Superman without any protection or plot armour. I mean, if we were realistic Batman without his Hellbat suit shouldn't be able to move happily in a fight between a powerful villain and the Justice League, he too should be grievously maimed at this point.

    Lois, for all her proclaimed importance in Superman's mythos isn't exactly used as her own character (hence why I've never cared about her) but as a walking plot device and it is quite obvious in this issue, with Lois losing her leg (when, to be frank, it wasn't needed : a schoolmate of Jon getting badly hurt or just plain townsfolk) could have achieved the same goal : put a wedge between Superman and Superboy. In fact, in such a situation, Lois' role could have been greater than "I know I lost my leg because daddy didn't want to kill monsters, but I'm totally fine and you should be too, John". Her not suffering injuries (or at least not grievous ones) but still explaining to John why it is important for non-Supers to see that Superman support a no-kill policy at all cost could go far deeper that what I'm afraid we'll see as a resolution of this arc...

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Cost of being the wife of Superman without any protection or plot armour. I mean, if we were realistic Batman without his Hellbat suit shouldn't be able to move happily in a fight between a powerful villain and the Justice League, he too should be grievously maimed at this point.

    Lois, for all her proclaimed importance in Superman's mythos isn't exactly used as her own character (hence why I've never cared about her) but as a walking plot device and it is quite obvious in this issue, with Lois losing her leg (when, to be frank, it wasn't needed : a schoolmate of Jon getting badly hurt or just plain townsfolk) could have achieved the same goal : put a wedge between Superman and Superboy. In fact, in such a situation, Lois' role could have been greater than "I know I lost my leg because daddy didn't want to kill monsters, but I'm totally fine and you should be too, John". Her not suffering injuries (or at least not grievous ones) but still explaining to John why it is important for non-Supers to see that Superman support a no-kill policy at all cost could go far deeper that what I'm afraid we'll see as a resolution of this arc...
    Jon is having his innocense shattered by Manchester, trying to have his spirit broken so he is a bit more easy to mould to Black's liking, he has to be put at odds with his father in ways that fit Manchester's character, who has been known to provide Supes with excessive means of twisting the knife to get him to compromise his ideals. A pep talk from Lois to Jon about the no-kill code isn't going to generate as much doubt in him necessary for an escalation in drama as Jon would understand it. He needed to see Lois suffer at his father's hand to show just how dangerous and costly it can get.

    But then, you hate every version of Supes bar his EW52 version so you're not exactly the expert on these matters are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    At least other writers won't have to jump through too many hoops to retcon the maiming of Miss Lane out of continuity
    Mrs. Kent. Get it right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starsky_Hutch76 View Post
    Thank you! This sort of lowest common denominator story telling was what got me to drop DC before. This seriousl makes me rethink the high hopes I had for Rebirth.


    One of my best friends, who is female, took a completely different message from that issue, she was proud that Lois was made of sterner stuff, that she understood her situation and encouraged Clark not to let it affect his search for Jon.

    The vacation arc art previews I've seen show everyone's fine. Relax.

    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Action Comics suggests it will be undone/revealed to be some sort of illusion though.
    It's Manchester we're talking about. Of course it's an illusion.
    Last edited by Kuwagaton; 05-18-2017 at 08:33 AM. Reason: Let's not rant about complete strangers

  11. #56
    Fantastic Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Jon is having his innocense shattered by Manchester, trying to have his spirit broken so he is a bit more easy to mould to Black's liking, he has to be put at odds with his father in ways that fit Manchester's character, who has been known to provide Supes with excessive means of twisting the knife to get him to compromise his ideals. A pep talk from Lois to Jon about the no-kill code isn't going to generate as much doubt in him necessary for an escalation in drama as Jon would understand it. He needed to see Lois suffer at his father's hand to show just how dangerous and costly it can get.

    But then, you hate every version of Supes bar his EW52 version so you're not exactly the expert on these matters are you?
    I don't need to like Superbore and his cast to know storytelling. And I find that using shock value the way it was done in this issue to be really poor storytelling to progress the plot. John didn't need to see his mom maimed (not hurt, maimed !) to begin to think that perhaps his father was wrong when it come to his no-killing policy*. Seeing a town he has grown to love (at least I think he loves it now) being wrecked by monsters, its inhabitant badly hurt, perhaps agonizing bellow the destruction could have been more than enough, if used well, than maiming Los, especially when it is clear that the loss of her leg will be extremely quickly put in the Forgotten Zone, if the solicits are to be believed, making said loss even more of a plot device added for shock value and buzz (hell, I'm commenting only because a friend lent me his issue saying me that something incredible had happened and I didn't feel the need to comment on it before someone actually articulated her concerns and shock over it in a better way that I could, jaded as I am by the current Superman).

    *And I say to begin because, in my eyes, it has to be a long storyline for Jon and his family to cope with it and thus it should be used for at least a dozen of issues, hopefully more, with times of open conflicts and others where the kid does try to find his own modus operandi.

    Also, I like the DCEU Superman, because I feel the world reacts to it as it should to the coming of a Space God, with controversy and twisted people trying to use it, but Superman still shining through all of it to do what is right.

  12. #57
    Incredible Member fanfan13's Avatar
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    I feel weird that I am female but haven't once thought the perspective of Lois' accident as a plot device to whatever they want with the men until I read this thread. My first reaction basically was "Oh nooo Lois! She lost a leg!! So hardcore! How are they going to fix that later??" and then "Oh God, she's hurt so badly, her cries hurt me so much, yet she still thinks of her family first than herself. If I were her and in the same condition I don't think I could be as strong as her. The power of a mother is so amazing. Now, Where's my own mom? I want to hug her and tell her how much I love her."

    Then, I saw Jon being forced to watch the whole scene and I was, "Noooo, my son! How dare you do that!!!"

    Though I respect those women who don't like this kind of development. After all, no matter how we look at it, she is indeed being used a plot device to put Jon on the opposing side of Superman. I hope that later Lois will also be the one to fix things between father and son because from my perspective, a mother is the base foundation of a family. If a mother is strong, so is the family and vice versa.
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  13. #58
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    I'm honestly not seeing anything here really, Lois had full agency here, she went out, she was in a fight, she didn't back down but at the end of the day she IS human and she paid for it. As for being a plot device, obviously because Chester is a Supes villain not a Lois villain. Same thing as Bane over in King's Batman, you may not like it but its a legit story device. In Lois case its not like she has her own book which is being derailed by developments here.

    Still this is Tomasi not Snyder, Tomasi isn't going to maim someone and he usually goes for an approach that pleases the fans of all characters involved. Just wait before losing your minds folks.

  14. #59
    Spectacular Member The Learner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanfan13 View Post
    I feel weird that I am female but haven't once thought the perspective of Lois' accident as a plot device to whatever they want with the men until I read this thread. My first reaction basically was "Oh nooo Lois! She lost a leg!! So hardcore! How are they going to fix that later??" and then "Oh God, she's hurt so badly, her cries hurt me so much, yet she still thinks of her family first than herself. If I were her and in the same condition I don't think I could be as strong as her. The power of a mother is so amazing. Now, Where's my own mom? I want to hug her and tell her how much I love her."

    Then, I saw Jon being forced to watch the whole scene and I was, "Noooo, my son! How dare you do that!!!"

    Though I respect those women who don't like this kind of development. After all, no matter how we look at it, she is indeed being used a plot device to put Jon on the opposing side of Superman. I hope that later Lois will also be the one to fix things between father and son because from my perspective, a mother is the base foundation of a family. If a mother is strong, so is the family and vice versa.
    All female readers I know thought the same way as you did. All of them felt sad for her but no one considered it as an anti-women move/disrespecting women. I didn't and still don't feel anything wrong here. Most human supporting characters are likely to be put in dangers such as these, especially someone like Lois. Her husband is Superman himself, by marrying him she subscribed to all the dangers coming towards her husband as well. She tried her best to help but unfortunately lost her leg. I sincerely hope it is an illusion. The best way to break Superman and Jon is hurting Lois, Manchester Black has a history of doing that. Last time, he 'killed' her to test Clark but failed. This time his focus is on Jon. Jon is young and there is no way an innocent boy such as him would watch his mother suffer. Lois' losing her leg would be the incentive for Jon to question Clark's ideals and confront his dad in the next issue.

    I am sure, Lois will have a huge role to play in the next issues. She is strong and capable woman, this issue just proved it. Despite being hurt pretty badly, she tried to help as mush as she could and put her motherly affection first. Her last words of the issue were to find her son, not to fix her leg. I don't think everyone can act like that.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    I don't need to like Superbore and his cast to know storytelling. And I find that using shock value the way it was done in this issue to be really poor storytelling to progress the plot. John didn't need to see his mom maimed (not hurt, maimed !) to begin to think that perhaps his father was wrong when it come to his no-killing policy*. Seeing a town he has grown to love (at least I think he loves it now) being wrecked by monsters, its inhabitant badly hurt, perhaps agonizing bellow the destruction could have been more than enough, if used well, than maiming Los, especially when it is clear that the loss of her leg will be extremely quickly put in the Forgotten Zone, if the solicits are to be believed, making said loss even more of a plot device added for shock value and buzz (hell, I'm commenting only because a friend lent me his issue saying me that something incredible had happened and I didn't feel the need to comment on it before someone actually articulated her concerns and shock over it in a better way that I could, jaded as I am by the current Superman).

    *And I say to begin because, in my eyes, it has to be a long storyline for Jon and his family to cope with it and thus it should be used for at least a dozen of issues, hopefully more, with times of open conflicts and others where the kid does try to find his own modus operandi.

    Also, I like the DCEU Superman, because I feel the world reacts to it as it should to the coming of a Space God, with controversy and twisted people trying to use it, but Superman still shining through all of it to do what is right.
    I can say the same thing about Alfred losing his hand in the NEW 52 Batman. Atleast this is going to be settled here and it actually serves a purpose, what exactly did the Batman book accomplish? a year of Batman books artists drawing Alfred in a manner where his hand (or lack of) wasn't noticeable? and they quickly reversed it with "magic" threads.

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