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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member UltimateTy's Avatar
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    Not with ASM being so focused on Doc Ock
    We need better comics

  2. #17
    Fantastic Member xpyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksuit View Post
    But, would not be better if the Green Goblin regain the knowledge about Spider-Man identity or would be able to remember all their story with Spidey/Peter until the unmasking?
    The problem with Norman regaining that knowledge at this point is the status of Norman himself. The guy just took over a country and was head of Hammer. He is far above street level Peter and because of the fall of Hammer and the Symkaria thing, Norman would literally have to up the stakes to new levels - possibly killing more than one member of the spider-man books to place him on such a dangerous level. Meaning; if Norman knew and played the whole "i know and no one else does" and does nothing, after taking over a country, that makes Norman look weak and wastes the reveal on his character.

  3. #18
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    Think with everything going on it's doable - but they need to fix Peter first;

    The best villains overlap with Peter in very core ways

    Personally I think if Parker industries goes down in flames, a real villain can emerge from the wreckage.

    To be classic they need a timeless back story - so no "my nanna lost her life savings in Parker stock derivatives, so I hate Spiderman..." Or introducing "the hipster" - a flannel clad, glasses wearing barista who wields the power of gentrification ... Or "protesto" , who sees Spideys privilege as a New Yorker citizen able to do vigilante stuff as a affront to justice
    Last edited by Vixx; 05-18-2017 at 09:25 AM.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vixx View Post
    Think with everything going on it's doable - but they need to fix Peter first;

    The best villains overlap with Peter in very core ways

    Personally I think if Parker industries goes down in flames, a real villain can emerge from the wreckage.

    To be classic they need a timeless back story - so no "my nanna lost her life savings in Parker stock derivatives, so I hate Spiderman..." Or introducing "the hipster" - a flannel clad, glasses wearing barista who wields the power of gentrification ... Or "protesto" , who sees Spideys privilege as a New Yorker citizen able to do vigilante stuff as a affront to justice
    You're close--they introduced a "hipster" version of the Trapster in the FCBD story of the Zdarsky Spectacular SM.
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  5. #20
    Mighty Member Tuck's Avatar
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    Mr. Negative could be.

  6. #21
    Mighty Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Could they make a new iconic villain? Of course.

    Will it happen again? I think it will.

    When will it happen? Hard to say. Creating iconic characters is hard work and not something you can really decide to do.

    Has it already happened? I'm not sure and I think it's too early to tell.

  7. #22
    Moderator oldschool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuck View Post
    Mr. Negative could be.

    Eh, I like the character a lot but I don't see how he could possibly achieve classic status at this point as he has been around for the better part of a decade already. Even if he were to "kill" Peter (something Morlun already did and he's not classic villain status), he wouldn't get there. Which is kinda my point.....I don't see how any new villain could possibly achieve the status of the early rogues' gallery the way both Hobby and Venom did in the 1980's----it's been a full generation (plus) since their introduction and no one new has emerged to join the ranks.

    And, honestly, since Slott has had the reins for so much of the past decade, if he couldn't push Mr Negative up into the pantheon of classic baddies, no one could. Because, after all, I think one main reason that it is so hard for a new big baddie to get elevated to classic status is the changing creative teams. Even when a new villain with potential is introduced (like Fusion during Jenkins' PP:SM run), once a new writer comes on, he/she wants to focus on their own creations/agendas.
    I miss Kevin Nichols. Not as much as bacon, but still...

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    You're close--they introduced a "hipster" version of the Trapster in the FCBD story of the Zdarsky Spectacular SM.
    Ha! I need to read that

  9. #24
    Incredible Member Uncanny Mutie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldschool View Post
    I think one main reason that it is so hard for a new big baddie to get elevated to classic status is the changing creative teams.
    I think the main reason it has been hard for a new villain to get elevated to CLASSIC status is the lack of CLASSIC/tradtional-type Spider-Man stories that have been being told for the past few years.

    Spidey, at his core, is quintessentially a street level hero and works best in street level type stories. Mr. Negative would be the closet thing to a newer villain who could fit into the ranks of Spidey's classic ones (who are all street level). At the beginning of Brand New Day, Spidey was taken back to basics and the writers were telling a lot of street level stories, and Mr. Negative was actually gaining traction. But once Slott took over as the main writer and started doing world level threat stories like Ends of the Earth and the James Bond/Tony Stark wannabe type stories that literally have Spidey flying all over the world in the current volume of ASM, the potential Mr. Negative had as a great, classic Spidey villain kinda got pushed to the side and forgotten. I mean, just look at the last time he was used in the main ASM book. Slott made him more of an international threat who was fighting Spidey on the other side of the globe in China rather than the great NYC, street level threat he had previously excelled at being portrayed as.

    So to make a long story short, when the focus of the stories shifted from Spidey swinging from webs on skyscrapers and fighting great, classic, street level threats and villains in NYC and shifted towards Spidey wearing high tech armor, riding around in high tech jets, spaceships, cars, and motorcycles to chase and combat global threats all over the world and even in outer space, then the potential for new, classic villains who fit in with the types of villains that Spidey already has that are classic pretty much went out of the window.

  10. #25
    Incredible Member Uncanny Mutie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldschool View Post
    JMS made a good push with Morlun
    Morlun will never be seen as a classic Spider-Man villain because he is way too powerful for Spider-Man and is so out of his league that he literally needed a team of extra dimensional Spider-Men to beat him, which further took Spider-Man away from his street level comfort zone. That goes back to my point that if a villain is too powerful to truly be street level, then he/she really has no business being a recurring Spider-Man villain anyway, which means he/she will probably never be a classic Spider-Man villain.
    Last edited by Uncanny Mutie; 05-19-2017 at 08:45 AM.

  11. #26
    Mighty Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncanny Mutie View Post
    I think the main reason it has been hard for a new villain to get elevated to CLASSIC status is the lack of CLASSIC/tradtional-type Spider-Man stories that have been being told for the past few years.

    Spidey, at his core, is quintessentially a street level hero and works best in street level type stories. Mr. Negative would be the closet thing to a newer villain who could fit into the ranks of Spidey's classic ones (who are all street level). At the beginning of Brand New Day, Spidey was taken back to basics and the writers were telling a lot of street level stories, and Mr. Negative was actually gaining traction. But once Slott took over as the main writer and started doing world level threat stories like Ends of the Earth and the James Bond/Tony Stark wannabe type stories that literally have Spidey flying all over the world in the current volume of ASM, the potential Mr. Negative had as a great, classic Spidey villain kinda got pushed to the side and forgotten. I mean, just look at the last time he was used in the main ASM book. Slott made him more of an international threat who was fighting Spidey on the other side of the globe in China rather than the great NYC, street level threat he had previously excelled at being portrayed as.

    So to make a long story short, when the focus of the stories shifted from Spidey swinging from webs on skyscrapers and fighting great, classic, street level threats and villains in NYC and shifted towards Spidey wearing high tech armor, riding around in high tech jets, spaceships, cars, and motorcycles to chase and combat global threats all over the world and even in outer space, then the potential for new, classic villains who fit in with the types of villains that Spidey already has that are classic pretty much went out of the window.
    I think that the whole making Spider-Man the new Tony Start super-spy is a mistake, too and that Spider-Man will always be the street-level everyman when you get down to it.

    However, isn't it possible that they could create an iconic villain that matches with the Iron Man-lite Spidey by tailor-fitting a new character for this setting?

  12. #27
    Incredible Member Uncanny Mutie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    I think that the whole making Spider-Man the new Tony Start super-spy is a mistake, too and that Spider-Man will always be the street-level everyman when you get down to it.

    However, isn't it possible that they could create an iconic villain that matches with the Iron Man-lite Spidey by tailor-fitting a new character for this setting?
    Nope, because that's not really Spider-Man and he will inevitably be reset to being the classic, street level, everyman hero that he is supposed to be and that has made him a success for so many decades. So once that happens, where will that leave all of his Iron Man-lite villains?

  13. #28
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Question - is the Jackal a classic villain?
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  14. #29
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Question - is the Jackal a classic villain?
    I think whether Warren counts as one is a good question.

    I mean, he's been involved with some major storylines like all the Clone Saga's or Spider-Island, but you never see him really put up there with Gobby, Ock, and Venom as far as the biggest Spidey villains or any of the other classic Rogues. Maybe because of how infamous the Clone Saga became.

    He also debuted in the late-end of Conway's first run, so he predates the Hobgoblin by a few years.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Question - is the Jackal a classic villain?
    Well, Jackal has certainly been around for a few decades and has been featured in multiple stories. I would consider him classic, but not quite on the same level as Doc Ock and Green Goblin.

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