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  1. #1
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    Default Wonder Woman As A Marvel Character?

    I was thinking about Joss Whedon's comment about how Batman is a Marvel character in the DCU. Could this also apply to Diana as well?

    She doesn't have a secret identity or a rule against killing, not unlike most Marvel heroes and a great deal of her stories focus on the ramifications of her actions in the public. Her stories also tend to incorporate some rather heavy topics like xenophobia, gender conflict, abuse, and sometimes even rape.

  2. #2
    Fantastic Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    I don't buy either really. If Batman was a Marvel character he'd not be the Batgod. He'd be someone much like Moon Knight who is a minor character and not one of the most heavily promoted.

    Also, there's a lot of Marvel characters that have or had secret identities. and really, the "Superheroes don't kill" thing is rather new to DC anyways.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member vasir12's Avatar
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    I don't see how this makes her a Marvel type character. I also don't see how Batman can be considered a Marvel type either when he was among the first of the DC ones.

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    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I don't think all those traits are Marvel-specific, nor are they necessarily always true for Diana depending on the continuity or take a creator is going with.

    I mean, "Diana Prince" is still a thing and while under dire or extreme situations she may be more willing to kill, she's generally averse to it.

  5. #5
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Yeah, that statement from Joss Whedon just makes me think he isn't very aware of the DC Universe outside of Gotham beyond "overpowered god-like unrelatable figures", a very simplified and skewed impression that some folks have. I'm sure he thinks Diana falls right into that generalization of DC characters too. It would explain what he had said about how he had planned to subvert her character by having her be vulnerable to bullets and be shot in the WW movie that he was supposed to write and direct.

    Now that I think of it, that statement and idea shows that maybe he didn't get the fundamental point of her character.
    Last edited by Confuzzled; 05-18-2017 at 10:21 AM.

  6. #6

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    After reading his Wonder Woman script I have to say his opinion about DC or Wonder Woman should be taken with a grain of salt

  7. #7
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrodite's Champion View Post
    After reading his Wonder Woman script I have to say his opinion about DC or Wonder Woman should be taken with a grain of salt
    Do we need to be concerned for Batgirl? I saw his comment about how he wants to explore the "damage that drove her to wear the cowl" and seeing how the Batgirl in the film is confirmed to be Barbara Gordon, that's not her motivation at all.

  8. #8
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Do we need to be concerned for Batgirl? I saw his comment about how he wants to explore the "damage that drove her to wear the cowl" and seeing how the Batgirl in the film is confirmed to be Barbara Gordon, that's not her motivation at all.
    Conversely he's also said that he envisions Batgirl as a character with a completely different drive then Batman does, without needing a personal tragedy to inspire her to become a vigilante, so I think we'll just have to see how things play out.

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    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Conversely he's also said that he envisions Batgirl as a character with a completely different drive then Batman does, without needing a personal tragedy to inspire her to become a vigilante, so I think we'll just have to see how things play out.
    That sounds more reassuring. Where/when did he say it?

  10. #10
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    That sounds more reassuring. Where/when did he say it?
    I actually think it's from the same quote you're drawing from.

    I started getting obsessed with how a young woman could get hardcore enough to need to put on the cowl. Like, what's her damage? Who is this person, who decides — rather than being forced to by their childhood trauma — decides to pick up this life? How intense and driven that person is ... I just couldn't stop thinking about it.
    I bolded the parts I found more notable then the "damage" part.

  11. #11
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I actually think it's from the same quote you're drawing from.


    I bolded the parts I found more notable then the "damage" part.
    In what context is he using "damage" though? I hope it is not literal "damage" that just excludes childhood trauma (please no college campus rape/rape of a friend or something of the kind as a motivator! )

    I'd be more okay if the "damage" in question is something like Babs having a kind of OCD that drives her to be a perfectionist in all aspects of her life. Still, "damage" is kind of a weird and uncomfortable term to use even in such a context. Though it won't be the first time he has been careless while handling sensitive topics.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Bogotazo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Yeah, that statement from Joss Whedon just makes me think he isn't very aware of the DC Universe outside of Gotham beyond "overpowered god-like unrelatable figures", a very simplified and skewed impression that some folks have. I'm sure he thinks Diana falls right into that generalization of DC characters too. It would explain what he had said about how he had planned to subvert her character by having her be vulnerable to bullets and be shot in the WW movie that he was supposed to write and direct.

    Now that I think of it, that statement and idea shows that maybe he didn't get the fundamental point of her character.
    Yeah, I dislike that over simplified reduction of DC characters. For me DC characters are powerful because they are two-fold: there's a person beneath the costume with complex struggles, but they're also powerful symbols that represent something larger than just their personality. So while WW does raise a lot of questions about sexuality, gender, religion, etc. she does so while being an iconic symbol of empowerment and justice.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I was thinking about Joss Whedon's comment about how Batman is a Marvel character in the DCU. Could this also apply to Diana as well?

    She doesn't have a secret identity or a rule against killing, not unlike most Marvel heroes and a great deal of her stories focus on the ramifications of her actions in the public. Her stories also tend to incorporate some rather heavy topics like xenophobia, gender conflict, abuse, and sometimes even rape.
    I think Gail Simone once described Captain America as a DC character living in Marvel so i think we need to describe whats the difference between a marvel character and a dc character.

  14. #14
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    In what context is he using "damage" though? I hope it is not literal "damage" that just excludes childhood trauma (please no college campus rape/rape of a friend or something of the kind as a motivator! )

    I'd be more okay if the "damage" in question is something like Babs having a kind of OCD that drives her to be a perfectionist in all aspects of her life. Still, "damage" is kind of a weird and uncomfortable term to use even in such a context. Though it won't be the first time he has been careless while handling sensitive topics.
    "What's your damage" is a turn of phrase that does generally not inquire about actual damage but why this or that person is doing this weird thing.
    It's from "Heathers" originally, or so the Internets tell me.
    So this Zealot comes to my door, all glazed eyes and clean reproductive organs, asking me if I ever think about God. So I tell him I killed God. I tracked God down like a rabid dog, hacked off his legs with a hedge trimmer, and boiled off his corpse in an acid bath. So he pulls an alternating-current taser on me and tells me that only the Official Serbian Church of Tesla can save my polyphase intrinsic electric field, known to non-engineers as "the soul". So I hit him. What would you do?

  15. #15
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    You know, I really dont like it when people, like Whendon, make that kind of claim that 'Batman is a Marvel character in the DCU'. Partly because it simply isn't true with Batman being much older than the modern version of Marvel that has its empathise on tragedy-ridden heroes... so you might as well call Marvel Batman's bastard offspring with Stan Lee.
    Secondly and more importantly, it just sounds really dumb that you try and shoehorn certain kinds of characters into one company or the other based on their background. Like if tragic past makes it a Marvel character, would characters like Namor and Captain America be DC characters because their pasts lack the driving tragedy of say the X-Men and Spiderman?

    Diana as a Marvel character... well I think you could transplant Diana directly from one company to the other if you wanted. But I suspect Marvel would tag on somekind of tragedy to her to showcase how she is now hers... much like they did with Angela, she was just a badass angelic demon hunter for hire at Image, now she's the lost first born daughter of Odin who's at war with her own family.
    Also, based on the copies of Diana, I am not sure if they could resist making her more kill-happy ala Atume (daughter of Hippolyta) and Power Princess (various Supreme teams).
    Finally... I am just dreading that a move like this would result in Steve Trevor's story being turned into Steve Rogers...Diana's outfit will not be based on the Red white and blue, but on Cap's outfit.

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