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  1. #1

    Default As big as the Bat-Family is by now...

    Why can't Gotham City get "cleaned up" consistently once and for all?
    How many active Bat-allies are there now? Well over a dozen?

    Just curious as to how wide of a scope that they have, and how comprehensively the team has been deployed.

    How many square miles is Gotham? Why not target neighborhoods with Bat-heroes every day and night?

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member unclepulky's Avatar
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    Real Answer: Because then we wouldn't have any more stories.
    World's Biggest Cassandra Cain Fan

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Caivu's Avatar
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    In-universe answer: Gotham is cursed/built above the literal portal to Hell/had a demon chained to its foundations/is the "dark heart of the world".

    Basically, it's literally an evil city.
    Mega fan of: Helena Bertinelli (pre-52), Batwoman, Birds of Prey, Guardians of the Galaxy, Secret Six
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  4. #4
    The Batfamily Will Preval UnderTheRedHood's Avatar
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    Still isn't enough of them to completely protect the city. Gotham is a big place If Batman Is dealing with joker downtown, And Birds of Prey are dealing white canary a few blocks away and your in the alley with a hungry Killer Croc. Welp... Lol

    A Good amount of them aren't even as capable as batman and the ones that mostly are aren't even in the city, Nightwing, Red Hood, Batwoman Ect...
    so if a threat arises and Batman is busy, Azreal is meditating, Tim isn't there to outsmart the threat & Cassandra is in ballet class the best you can hope for is duke lol
    Jason Todd, Cassandra Cain, Helena Wayne, Bruce, Harper, Kate, Dick, Barbra, Thomas, Brenna, Tim, Damian, Duke , Stephanie, Luke, Terry,

    #BATSQUAD

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member unclepulky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnderTheRedHood View Post

    A Good amount of them aren't even as capable as batman and the ones that mostly are aren't even in the city, Nightwing, Red Hood, Batwoman Ect...
    so if a threat arises and Batman is busy, Azreal is meditating, Tim isn't there to outsmart the threat & Cassandra is in ballet class the best you can hope for is duke lol
    Well the actual best you could hope for in that case is Basil or Luke. And while she's on the outs from the Family, there's also Steph. Hell, I'd take Ace or Batcow over Duke in a fight. Maaaaaaaybe I'd feel safer with Duke than BurnsideBabs. XD
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  6. #6
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    Batman has exiled all of them from Gotham City except Duke.

  7. #7
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    I don't buy the Hellmouth theory (Batman Eternal notwithstanding). I honestly think there's no good in-universe reason for Gotham never getting better, especially if you acknowledge that this is a work where Superman is a valid hero. If you go the Zack Snyder route, Superman is not a valid hero, and Gotham never gets better because the whole world is Gotham.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
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    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
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  8. #8
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    I would sincerely like for a few years of Batman comics to constantly be talking about how much Gotham has improved. Every human society will always have criminals and natural disasters and terrorism and other problems, and there will never be a situation in which Batman will be useless for days on end, but it would be nice if the citizens and police and heroes all got to talk about how much better gotham has been. Y'know, 'When I was 25 I couldn't go out at night, and nowadays I can take my kids to the park without having to worry' sort of thing, and have people grateful to a) the batfamily for their success and b) Gordon and the honest cops for cleaning up the police.
    I'd like people to recognize a timeline of mobsters and corrupt cops getting improved, supercriminals running rampant, then being brought down to more manageable levels. I'd like the public to state that supercrime is a rare, newsworthy occasion, not every second of everyday forever.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Bogotazo's Avatar
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    I have a bigger issue with Gordon being commissioner and still not being able to keep the prisons from becoming revolving doors. Because the only way so many crime bosses should be able to operate so extensively has to be corruption. Though I'm fine with the notion Gordon can't control everything.

    If we break it down by levels:

    -Small scale crime: petty crimes, theft, burglary, small robberies. This needs constant patrolling.
    -Sporadic violent crime: murders, kidnappings, assassinations (Think Zsas, Croc, Mr. Pyg). These require full-time and often time-sensitive investigations.
    -Extensive criminal enterprises: Black Mask, Penguin, Riddler, Joker, Two-Face etc. These don't go away. Someone's always trying to get on top.

    Organized crime is in a very historically weak era now, but historically, crime on various levels of society was simply a part of life for entire cities. That's Gotham.

    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    If you go the Zack Snyder route, Superman is not a valid hero, and Gotham never gets better because the whole world is Gotham.
    No, men are still good, if you seek his monument look around you.

    In any case, Superman is most often fighting bigger threats. He has detective skills as a journalist, but infiltration, operating in the shadows, being able to psychoanalyze and predict every potential move a Gotham villain might make...that's in Bruce's DNA at this point. Because it has to be.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Bogotazo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingcrimsonprog View Post
    I would sincerely like for a few years of Batman comics to constantly be talking about how much Gotham has improved. Every human society will always have criminals and natural disasters and terrorism and other problems, and there will never be a situation in which Batman will be useless for days on end, but it would be nice if the citizens and police and heroes all got to talk about how much better gotham has been. Y'know, 'When I was 25 I couldn't go out at night, and nowadays I can take my kids to the park without having to worry' sort of thing, and have people grateful to a) the batfamily for their success and b) Gordon and the honest cops for cleaning up the police.
    I'd like people to recognize a timeline of mobsters and corrupt cops getting improved, supercriminals running rampant, then being brought down to more manageable levels. I'd like the public to state that supercrime is a rare, newsworthy occasion, not every second of everyday forever.
    Agreed. I very much appreciate this internal monologue in "Confidential":

    It's funny. The difference between silence and quiet.

    Silence has a hum behind it. A nervousness. The fear of making a sound.

    Quiet is absence. It is rest.

    Silence is breath held. Quiet is soft breathing.

    Tonight Gotham is quiet. For the first time since I've known her. It is working.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclepulky View Post
    Well the actual best you could hope for in that case is Basil or Luke. And while she's on the outs from the Family, there's also Steph. Hell, I'd take Ace or Batcow over Duke in a fight. Maaaaaaaybe I'd feel safer with Duke than BurnsideBabs. XD
    I am not sure if Steph is part of the solution or problem right now given that right now her plan is to undermine the heroes.

  12. #12
    "Im Mary Poppins Yall!" Aioros22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I don't buy the Hellmouth theory (Batman Eternal notwithstanding). I honestly think there's no good in-universe reason for Gotham never getting better, especially if you acknowledge that this is a work where Superman is a valid hero. If you go the Zack Snyder route, Superman is not a valid hero, and Gotham never gets better because the whole world is Gotham.
    A world where Superman exists is part of why I can buy Gotham City being built over a Hell door. Cleaning a city is not only about jailing people and Superman got his own things to do. It`s the same as asking why Metropolis keeps being invaded when you have other heroes that can help Superman.

  13. #13
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogotazo View Post
    No, men are still good, if you seek his monument look around you.
    It's a nice line, and I actually liked the movie, but show, don't tell. Superman is shown to be ineffective in the film, and no amount of nice dialogue will negate that undercutting.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZuLuLu View Post
    I am not sure if Steph is part of the solution or problem right now given that right now her plan is to undermine the heroes.
    No, that's not her plan.

    The big thing with Spoiler... She ended the Victims Syndicate arc knowing that she wants to help people but no longer believing that being a superhero, being a costumed vigilante, is the right way to help people. We're going to see her take a new role. One of the most telling things that I stuck there at the end of the Victims Syndicate was the idea of her ripping the wiring out of the Batsignal, and the idea that the cops were able to resolve this whole big crisis one night because Batman never found out it happened. That role--the role of the Spoiler--trying to prevent these costumed figures from attacking each other, that is her new position.

    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/artic...-/1100-156448/

    Her goal is to find alternative solutions, not to stop all solutions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    A world where Superman exists is part of why I can buy Gotham City being built over a Hell door. Cleaning a city is not only about jailing people and Superman got his own things to do. It`s the same as asking why Metropolis keeps being invaded when you have other heroes that can help Superman.
    To me, it's more metaphysical than that. A world which creates Batman is a world where human nature is a specific way - much more prone to weakness, corruption, and evil. A world where Superman is an effective hero is a world where human nature is such that it can sustain the structures of society without falling into complete chaos and tyranny. These two fundamentally different takes on human nature, which are backed up by the nature of the stories told about these two characters, mean that I simply don't see the two as really inhabiting the same world (which, incidentally, is why I don't like the concept of the Justice League).
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
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  14. #14
    All-New Member Matches's Avatar
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    I am getting sick of the the whole "clean up Gotham" crap.

    I want some good 'ol slapstick 4-6 book stories with a villain trying to take over, Bruce thwarts them, end off story.


    DC and Bat stories in general are getting a bit PC with the clean up Gotham stories

  15. #15
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I don't buy the Hellmouth theory (Batman Eternal notwithstanding). I honestly think there's no good in-universe reason for Gotham never getting better, especially if you acknowledge that this is a work where Superman is a valid hero. If you go the Zack Snyder route, Superman is not a valid hero, and Gotham never gets better because the whole world is Gotham.
    Well, I wouldn't say that it's "because the whole world is Gotham," but because the fight to eradicate crime and forge an everlasting peace in the world or universe is a never-ending battle.

    Something I think both Batman and Superman can relate too.

    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    To me, it's more metaphysical than that. A world which creates Batman is a world where human nature is a specific way - much more prone to weakness, corruption, and evil. A world where Superman is an effective hero is a world where human nature is such that it can sustain the structures of society without falling into complete chaos and tyranny. These two fundamentally different takes on human nature, which are backed up by the nature of the stories told about these two characters, mean that I simply don't see the two as really inhabiting the same world (which, incidentally, is why I don't like the concept of the Justice League).
    I actually think they compliment each other through that, in their different approaches and in what they have to say about human nature and what it means to be a hero in society .

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